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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
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41
YouCantProveIt · 09/11/2025 22:25

GrooveArmada · 09/11/2025 20:44

Christmas came early!

Actually, Sky News is reporting comprehensively this is to do with Trump and trans-activist ideology. They're dancing around Palestine-Israel conflict more, but being clear on transgender issues being a contributing factor.

Credit where credit is due.

I see absolutely the Trump edit was crap journalism (since he says enough nasty things out loud to actually report on) and someone should take the fall.

I also feel like there was momentum from people saying true things out loud. And women saying things like the only people who get pregnant are women struck a chord with the vast majority of the 8 billion of us who were birthed by women.

OP posts:
ItsCoolForCats · 09/11/2025 22:25

Do we know when the report will be presented to the Culture, Media and Sport Committee, now that it is not happening on Wednesday? The Panorama edit is going to dominate the news for the next couple of days. Hopefully when the report is presented the media will focus on the other issues it raised.

YouCantProveIt · 09/11/2025 22:33

Blinkingbother · 09/11/2025 21:17

I’m not sure the gender critical movement can take a huge amount of credit, but some yes. I’m no fan of Trump but the speech doctoring was wholly unethical and amoral - it’s terrifying to think what else they may have done and got away with…. Is this a panorama issue alla Bashir or is there a BBC wide lack of true journalism and transparency. Scary times as far as I’m concerned - who the hell can you trust to tell the truth?

I’m happy for the GC movement to take any credit from 1 to 100%.

Women played their part. I have complaints coming out of my ears about their biased and poor quality reporting - this year alone I know hundreds of voices were being raised from Mumsnet alone.

What brings it home is the BBC images of the men in the Sandie Peggie or Darlington Nurses cases. The quality of the soft focus was last seen on 1950s starlets. The words, the images, the investigations are all 1984 writ large. Nothing to see, keep moving.

2+2=/= 5

OP posts:
YouCantProveIt · 09/11/2025 22:38

borntobequiet · 09/11/2025 21:39

I wonder if anyone has done a FOI request of the BBC to find out how many trans related complaints it’s had over, say, the last five years? I know they’ve had dozens from me.
Having never done one of these, I might give it a go tomorrow.

Please report back! And leave a template - we should ask same of other publically funded orgs.

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 09/11/2025 22:50

SlackJawedDisbeliefXY · 09/11/2025 22:19

Could the problem be one of cutting corners when checking compliance of an indie's work before broadcast?
The BBC are supposed to spread the license fee around amongst independents but perhaps high profile news reporting is better kept in house?

Panorama has a long history of dodgy standards of journalism.

The fact the BBC still has it on air and has never properly addressed this ongoing issue, in itself smacks of the BBC's inability to deal with known problems and to change when it is pulled up on poor standards.

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 09/11/2025 23:18

IwantToRetire · 09/11/2025 21:39

I know everyone loves to put the boot in to the BBC but in terms of UK news coverage the majority of outlets have their own "we will censor any GC news stories". Its just the the BBC is more open about it.

Of only everyone was as enraged about say the Guardian, the Indpendent, etc silencing of GC views as they are about the BBC.

So on one level the BBC is in line with UK standards of reporting on GC issues.

Look at the near 100% negative coverage and commentating about JKR. To a level that is close to hate, and daily published or broadcast.

The BBC is the State-funded national broadcaster. Other outlets are not. That's the difference.

InSightOfLand · 09/11/2025 23:23

EdithStourton · 09/11/2025 21:42

The BBC is THE public broadcaster, which is supposed to be impartial.

Other news sources are expected to have an element of bias. Ideally this wouldn't be how it is, but everyone expects the Telegraph to be right-wing and the Graun to be lefty.

The BBC needs to be politically and generally impartial in its news reporting and journalism because it is a broadcaster and all broadcasters are required to provide impartiality and balance in the UK, OFCOM regulates them all to this standard (the BBC used to have its own regulator but now comes under OFCOM).

If broadcasters don't comply they can be and are sanctioned by OFCOM. Some, like GB News and Al Jazeera use studio debates to claim to be facilitating 'opinion' rather than reporting but GB news is now getting OFCOM sanctions for non-compliance.

UK newspapers are not regulated in the same way and don't come under OFCOM. They can and do take a general political stance as publications, although if their reporting isn't factually accurate, they can be sued. They usually distinguish between reporting, analysis and opinion.

Toutafait · 09/11/2025 23:57

Well, in his letter Davies said he was pleased with the improvement in BBC culture. I suspect this was a friendly message to the trans activists in the BBC.

RedToothBrush · 09/11/2025 23:59

Toutafait · 09/11/2025 23:57

Well, in his letter Davies said he was pleased with the improvement in BBC culture. I suspect this was a friendly message to the trans activists in the BBC.

Tim Davie is delusional.

hallouminatus · 10/11/2025 01:13

WarriorN · 09/11/2025 21:52

Strange message from Emily

Newsagent Lewis Goodall was on HIGNFY minimising the Panorama scandal, and has continued to do so on X after the resignations:
"It’s minor embarrassment that was almost certainly a witless mistake."
https://nitter.net/lewis_goodall/status/1987668775177535611#m

Mollyollydolly · 10/11/2025 01:16

Yes he just replied to me when I asked 'would you have edited it like that?' that he wouldn't but it was a minor error. I mean the fact Trump could quite happily sue the BBC for eleventy billion dollars doesn't seem very minor to me, but each to their own Lewis.

IwantToRetire · 10/11/2025 01:37

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 09/11/2025 23:18

The BBC is the State-funded national broadcaster. Other outlets are not. That's the difference.

The BBC isn't state funded (although part comes from licence payers) And in fact lost one of it sources of funding when the Foreign Office ceased to fully fund the World Service, even though required to still keep it on air and so eating into the Licence Fee money.

So we are now paying for what the UK Government used to pay for as part of maintaining the UK's profile in other countries.(What is interesting is how much better the news is on the World Service)

And to echo what a PP said the problem is now the BBC for the UK is now dumbed down to US levels, as it chases ratings and has to compete for commercial money eg tv series etc are now often co-produced.

And also to cut cost many news and documentary programmes are made by outside companies who quite often have no particular standards.

I am amazed that in 2025 anybody thinks it is a public service.

Although the clever Tory double dealing over the World Service is typical of them, the resulting situation is a bit like Blair with his PFI initiatives.

Everyone is talking as though we are back in the 1930 when the BBC (radio only) was to educate the public and keep it entertained with approved shows.

Making accusations against the BBC based on concepts about that aren't real just doesn't help.

Its been a fudge for years and different Governments have contributed to it. Like the NHS we are all supposed to admire it and think it never goes wrong but aren't prepared to fund it to do so.

The only truth is that it journalistic standards are not trusted as they used to be. And what is so funny is that in the days when it was "trusted" were the days when in fact it was presuming to tell us what was important and how we should think about things and everyone just accepted that Auntie knew best.

This was only really first challenged in the 60s & 70s.

Maybe to get the audience and licence payers to realise todays reality we should be looking at the example of the PBS in the US.

But might find there would be no Strictly. Then you really will hear licence fees payers moaning.

hallouminatus · 10/11/2025 01:57

Kemi Badenoch has tweeted about the resignations:
https://nitter.net/KemiBadenoch/status/1987601695057367165#m
And the BBC has reported and quoted from her post:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3vn25d5dq7o
But they missed out one significant sentence:
"And on basic matters of biology, the corporation can no longer allow its output to be shaped by a cabal of ideological activists."
It seems to be the one aspect of the Prescott report they'd really rather no-one mentioned.

Split pic of Tim Davie (left) and Deborah Turness (right)

BBC director general Tim Davie and News CEO Deborah Turness resign over Trump documentary edit

Tim Davie and Deborah Turness resign after criticism Panorama misled viewers with an edit of a speech by Donald Trump.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3vn25d5dq7o

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 10/11/2025 02:15

IwantToRetire · 10/11/2025 01:37

The BBC isn't state funded (although part comes from licence payers) And in fact lost one of it sources of funding when the Foreign Office ceased to fully fund the World Service, even though required to still keep it on air and so eating into the Licence Fee money.

So we are now paying for what the UK Government used to pay for as part of maintaining the UK's profile in other countries.(What is interesting is how much better the news is on the World Service)

And to echo what a PP said the problem is now the BBC for the UK is now dumbed down to US levels, as it chases ratings and has to compete for commercial money eg tv series etc are now often co-produced.

And also to cut cost many news and documentary programmes are made by outside companies who quite often have no particular standards.

I am amazed that in 2025 anybody thinks it is a public service.

Although the clever Tory double dealing over the World Service is typical of them, the resulting situation is a bit like Blair with his PFI initiatives.

Everyone is talking as though we are back in the 1930 when the BBC (radio only) was to educate the public and keep it entertained with approved shows.

Making accusations against the BBC based on concepts about that aren't real just doesn't help.

Its been a fudge for years and different Governments have contributed to it. Like the NHS we are all supposed to admire it and think it never goes wrong but aren't prepared to fund it to do so.

The only truth is that it journalistic standards are not trusted as they used to be. And what is so funny is that in the days when it was "trusted" were the days when in fact it was presuming to tell us what was important and how we should think about things and everyone just accepted that Auntie knew best.

This was only really first challenged in the 60s & 70s.

Maybe to get the audience and licence payers to realise todays reality we should be looking at the example of the PBS in the US.

But might find there would be no Strictly. Then you really will hear licence fees payers moaning.

The BBC isn't state funded (although part comes from licence payers)

A licence fee is a tax on owning a television set. Non-payment remains a criminal offence.

WarriorN · 10/11/2025 06:15

KingscoteStaff · 09/11/2025 21:53

The Panorama piece was made by an Indie, as was the Gaza piece featuring the son of a Hamas leader.
The BBC shouldn’t trust these profit making independents to follow their editorial guidelines.

whereas, according to the SEENin journalism time line, the bbc actively met with activists and actively planned programs that we know ACTIVELY harmed children

imho this is beyond reproach and there must be a public inquiry into that

WarriorN · 10/11/2025 06:18

C’mon Sonia!
She’s not letting it go

Sensitive content
Tim Davies Resigns - Can Gender Critical Movement take some credit?
AlecTrevelyan006 · 10/11/2025 06:41

Mollyollydolly · 10/11/2025 01:16

Yes he just replied to me when I asked 'would you have edited it like that?' that he wouldn't but it was a minor error. I mean the fact Trump could quite happily sue the BBC for eleventy billion dollars doesn't seem very minor to me, but each to their own Lewis.

Yes, some people are still trying to fob it off as error, but it’s not simply that.

A typo is an error.

No matter what your politics are, the examples sighted in the leaked document are of deliberately engineered mis-representation, bordering on deception.

WarriorN · 10/11/2025 06:50

Just read this on bbc app and gave been re reading this part over and over. Not sure what to think!

Katie Razzall: A seismic moment that shows rift at top of BBC https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c07m2v1z4evo

Tim Davies Resigns - Can Gender Critical Movement take some credit?
WarriorN · 10/11/2025 06:50

Thank you Ig!

Damnthetorpedoes · 10/11/2025 06:51

I hope that this is the beginning of the end for BBC news & politics, if the BBC is to survive at all.

Speaking of institutional dinosaurs, no longer fit for purpose - let the NHS be next.

RedToothBrush · 10/11/2025 06:53

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c07m2v1z4evo

Interesting article by Katie Razzle speculating on the BBC mess.

She says

It appears there has been a rift between the Board and the news division with some arguing the BBC has, for too long, failed to address institutional bias inside the BBC and others questioning whether what's unfolded has been an orchestrated - and politicised - campaign against the corporation which has claimed two big scalps.

For the best part of a week, since the Telegraph first broke its story, I haven't been able to understand why the BBC did not get on the front foot in the face of a deluge of damaging headlines about claims of systemic bias.

It needed to divide the allegations into two distinct stories.

The first, about the edit of the Trump speech in the Panorama programme, needed addressing immediately. Either with a swift apology - or indeed a case made for why the BBC believed it had not mischaracterised the president's words.

That would have allowed the BBC to come out fighting more widely on behalf of its journalism. Remember, it was being accused of institutional bias. Of a lack of impartiality. Accusations that cut to the heart of its news operation.

With an apology for the mistake around the Panorama (or a robust defence), it could have gone on to try to refute the other claims about institutional bias.

It could have said that the BBC had already been taking action to ensure editorial impartiality, and had already acted, for example, on issues at BBC Arabic.

Instead the BBC allowed the story to fester - and we ended up in a situation where the Trump White House was calling the BBC "fake news" and it had some traction.

My understanding from multiple sources inside the BBC is that a statement on Panorama had been ready to go for days.

The BBC planned to say on the Trump edit that it hadn't intended to mislead the public, but that in light of looking at it again, it believed there should have been some kind of white flash or wipe, to make clear to audiences that these were two distinct parts of the speech.

I understand Deborah Turness became more and more angry and frustrated as the week went on because she was prevented by the Board from putting out that apology.

Instead the BBC Board decided a letter to the Culture Media and Sport Committee was the way to go.

(Others have told me it's not as clearcut as this characterisation. That it took some time for news bosses to accept the Panorama edit had been an error and that there were discussions on all sides on how to respond.)

Many, both inside and outside the BBC, see the failure to respond as a grave mistake. The Telegraph's drip feed of allegations was damaging - and the BBC wasn't tackling them head on.

I have been told that Turness then went into a board meeting on Thursday to discuss the crisis around the Telegraph stories and was "ripped apart", as some have described it.

Those who have called the BBC's journalism into question would call that accountability.

But another source characterised it as the culmination of a "relentless critique of BBC journalism over two years by members of the Board and advisers - all of whom come from same political persuasion".

But another source characterised it as the culmination of a "relentless critique of BBC journalism over two years by members of the Board and advisers - all of whom come from same political persuasion".

They point to Robbie Gibb, a former BBC editor who left to become Downing St director of communications for Theresa May and who is now a member of the Board.

The former Sun editor, now BBC presenter David Yelland has called it "nothing short of a coup". He claims the BBC Board has been undermined and "elements close to it have worked with hostile newspaper editors, a former PM and enemies of public service broadcasting".

But another former Sun editor, Kelvin MacKenzie, had a very different take. Speaking on the BBC News Channel, he said the resignations were "the right thing to do - this was an issue that was never going away".

The editing of the speech, he said, could have led to Trump suing or the BBC being banned from the White House. "If you can't be trusted on that [the speech of the US president] what can you be trusted on?" he said.

It's not a coup.

It's a redress of unchecked power and a lack of accountability in politicisation within the BBC.

It's characterised as being a right wing political take over. It's not. It's people accurately saying that the bias at the BBC which has long been driven by the BBC has become that problematic that it ultimately threatens the integrity of the BBC.

The BBC should have apologised straight away, but actually the issue there is it would have just moved on and not addressed the underlying issues of bias if it had done that.

Kevin MacKenzie is spot on saying if you cant trust the BBC on basics then it's fucked. People will try and make out this is a 'right wing coup'. I honestly don't think it is. We've seen all the accusations here about being far right if you are GC or that you are being led by the American right and all its money for being GC.

It isn't the case.

It's about a failure of the left to address its own overreach and how levels of censorship and bias have been unchecked for so long that the Corporation is now out of step and alienating the public.

The BBC SHOULD be using language accurately and not in a political way. This is why the Martine Croxall verdict is so poignant. She was told off for using plain language in general usage rather than the approved political language which destroys the visibility and power of women. We are told that it's 'right wing' to refuse to want to get into the business pronouns but as we know on MN a lot of those fighting hardest against pronouns here and much more politically left wing or centrist than any of these activists are willing to admit.

It's about a removal of power from ordinary people and the language they use day to day to institutionally approved language which the public never agreed to and there is no public support for. It's about this top down power - it's BBC over reach for many years.

It's notable that even now in its coverage of the subject the BBC has removed references to biological sex from quotes. You have no choice but to ask why. This seems to be something they are super keen to repress and don't want to tackle head on. This ISN'T a right wing coup to want to talk about biology. Let's get this straight, just how many of us feel politically homeless because the left won't recognise sex.

This is the BBC terrified that if they don't use accurate language they'll have a bunch of young people abandon the channel. Let's be honest, those young people aren't watching anyway and actually the issue is that they are pandering to an overly amplified noisy bunch of activists who don't really reflect young people all that well anyway. They are fairly unrepresentative. You have a weird thing of many young people saying they believe x,y and z when asked by authority because they've been taught if they don't say that they get ostracised. In practice their private views often are much more complex and still developing. If the BBC abandons reality to chase them they seal their own fate by dooming themselves to irrelevance for just talking nonsense and not reflecting the wider public and not reflecting this ongoing issue with top down power and distortion by social media.

It needs to be seen in the context of a series of public scandals of this nature where both the public and private sector have claimed there's no issue / there's no complaints etc etc and yet there's a shed load there that's not too hard to find - but has been hushed up or been invisible to power from above because it's not ticked their boxes. We KNOW that complaints go under the radar. We KNOW that not everyone answers truthfully when authority asked a question. We have to be aware of identifying public mistrust and institutionalised misrepresentations. This is the bread and butter of journalism that the BBC is currently missing precisely because it's guilty of many of the same institutional problems. You have to start asking WHY there is such a back lash, is it actually a right wing backlash or is it a deliberate political mischaracterisation precisely to uphold a political narrative of its own.

We KNOW here that the biological backlash in the UK is NOT a right wing thing? How else do you explain the internal strife WITHIN the SNP, Greens, Labour and the LD if it's a right wing thing. The political issue of the last decade has been about how the focus in politics has shifted from left and right wing concerns to concerns about liberalism versus authoritarianism. The BBC have NEVER got to grips with this - they made an almighty pigs ear of it over Brexit and they continue to do so precisely because their issue is about internal authoritarianism.

It's effectively about a systematic suppression of internal critical complaints which deliberately seeks to undermine and consider the complaints of certain groups - PARTICULARLY women - because they don't fit the agenda and what the institution wants to here.

You can't have journalist integrity AND go around telling your staff that they have to be trained to lie about sex or erase sex - it's so integral to lived experience and the meaning of a story. Hence why courts are saying it's not ok to sanction women for refusing to call a male, male in a sex related court case.

You can draw a clear line connecting political hot potatoes of the past decade like the Post Office Scandal, Grooming Scandal, Grenfell to the same sort of problem. All have similar features about why these issues continued - it was about the institution being more concerned about the institution and protecting itself rather than addressing problems and dealing with how it was impacting on those it had a duty of case to - it's about powerful people versus the people. It's about institutional power being used against grassroots.

Katie Razzle is a good journalist. But even in trying to report this fairly she can't get to the heart of the problem because she has to engage in both siderisms rather than acknowledge its about a failure to commit to the principle that journalism sometimes isn't about pandering to political disagreements - it's about getting outside of that and seeing if it's actually raining outside and reporting on that.

The heart of this issue is that it doesn't want to look at whether it's in step and in tune with what the public are noticing. The fact we all know here the dynamics of the problem speaks volumes. Katie Razzle still can't describe what we can all see because she is tied to BBC protocols which just ultimately aren't working. She's institutionalised herself.

An employee walks inside BBC headquarters at New Broadcasting House

Katie Razzall: A seismic moment that shows rift at top of BBC

There may be more to this than meets the eye, says the BBC's culture and media editor.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c07m2v1z4evo