Survey on culture in the UK - 'trans rights' questions

[ArabellaSaurus]

New survey

19% of people say 'trans rights have not gone far enough' in the UK.
39% say 'trans rights have gone too far'.

That's a really big change in the past five years.

'The proportion who say transgender rights have gone too far in the UK has more than doubled since 2020, from 17% to 39%, though overall there is still no public consensus on the issue, with 19% now saying transgender rights have not gone far enough, 27% saying they’ve gone as far as they should, and a further 15% not giving an opinion.
The proportion of people who say transgender rights have gone too far has doubled among all age groups – even 16-24s, where one in five (19%) now feel this way, compared with around one in 10 (9%) in 2020. However, young people are still more likely to say transgender rights have not gone far enough (36%).'

https://www.ipsos.com/en-uk/uks-sense-division-reaches-new-high-culture-war-tensions-grow-study-finds

Article:

https://unherd.com/newsroom/growing-number-of-britons-think-trans-rights-have-gone-too-far/

Then you're anti-trans by your own logic as you said that trans women shouldn't work in women's rape centres, only real 'cis' women should work there.

Eh?

That makes no sense. I don't believe in god but that doesn't make me anti-Christian. Ergo my lack of belief in gender identity does not make me anti-trans.

If I'm anti- anything, I'm anti-coercion. I will not accept enforced belief. You appear to have decided that my refusal to accept a coerced belief that TWAW is somehow "hate".

Other than that, I'm pro- lots of things. Here are a few:

• freedom to hold personal beliefs
• choice, regarding abortion rights
• women's sports and spaces being single-sex

Please can you explain very clearly what changes exactly, and in detail, in a male person when they say they are female?

How is a male person with a transgender identity no longer a male person?

Considering there is no biological marker that distinguishes a male person with a transgender identity from other male people, the only commonality is that that male person has a philosophical belief about their identity that does not reflect material reality.

So, could you please explain how they are no longer a male person?

It is fucking offensive to suggest that you are any less of woman.

You clearly aren't reading the papers that you are referencing, so I question how much you have read up on this.

You say you have spoken to women, and I don't doubt that you are able to find women who have been socially conditioned to keep men happy, (it's a defense mechanism) but you don't seem to have any understanding of the law or biology or the reasons that women need sex specific rights.

This is a woman's rights page.

It has taken a decade to get to the stage where we can confidently affirm that women's rights exist in law. In the past fortnight trans activists have vandalised the Equality and Human Rights Commission. A woman who was simply trying to lead a permitted protest asking the Government to obey the law was threatened by the police because she stopped somebody shoving an umbrella in her face.

I think anger is justified.

It has been intimated they have been scared off.

Look at all the recent court cases. Look at the Supreme Court decision. Does it not occur to you that they just don't have much of an argument?

@WarrenTofficier and @Helleofabore

I agree with you both.

and it is worth also pointing out that caster took (I think) one of the international athletic committees to a court of arbitration to rule on that they shouldn't have to reduce their testosterone levels down to (not the amount produced by women) but the very high level set by the athletic association when it was at 10 nmols. .

Trans rights being human rights, as in everyone should have equal treatment? So the same for all groups in society, to be recognised and not be treated differently in an unfair way. This has been promoted and accepted, curious to understand what is meant by not far enough?

I would like to know why you think my teenage daughter and her teammates should have to shower and change with a middle-aged male who claims to be just like them. None of them want to. Why do their feelings not count?

Exactly - if @Gnasher1981 really believed that trans women were women he wouldn't listen to them let alone crusade on their behalf.

What would be really interesting would be to ask these people whether they've changed how they vote in the last decade or so, and if so, why?

I hypothesise that the major parties' stances on "culture wars" issues, such as whether TWAW, are driving a rightwards change in voting intentions. We know that some women, including me, resigned from the Labour Party over all-women shortlists being opened up to some men.

Ach ffs. Where's the "Man here!" meme when you need it?

So trans women are women, but not for the purposes of rape crisis centres.

what about prisons?

women’s sports?

hospital wards?

Is this going to be another ‘it isn’t what you say, it is how you say it!’ accusation ?

Another bananarama accusation of hatred?

I feel a trans woman is a woman and there needs to be discussion about this subject so that your daughter can understand she will not be in peril.
The trans person just wants to exercise and get changed without being thought of as dangerous.
At my work we all get changed in front of each other without any issues and the one person who doesn't want to go into a cubicle.

I wasn't trying to suggest you were somehow at odds with me just to lay out for those to whom Gnashers 'hey ladies you might be surprised to discover that actually you have testosterone too' post was helpful and indeed Gnashers himself how wide the gulf between m and f testosterone levels are, they don't overlap even when women have conditions that raise their levels and men are on cross sex hormones.

I would love to understand this "logic" but sadly doubt any explanation will be forthcoming.

I can imagine men like @Gnasher1981
stamping his feet saying "Iet men into ladies toilets! Why oh why, can't they come in?"

"Every one of them is harmless and a very nice person"
Stamps feet...
Let men innnnnn....

"If you let us into your womens spaces, then we've won! Yaaaay. Now, what next?"
Bit bored now, think of something else that shits on women and girls and puts them at risk.

This is just my opinion of course.

So you are fine with telling young girls that what they feel is less important than what a man wants? The trans woman in question has had no surgery, is a father and was recently changing with the men with no problem. How exactly are the girls meant to see this person as female? How? It is not even a question of being in danger. These girls do not want to be naked in front of a male. They also do not want to see a middle-aged male in the nude. Surely that is not hard for you to comprehend?

Do your employers provide changing rooms at work? If they do but they only provide one (i.e. you have to change in a mixed sex space) they are breaking the law.
I'm assuming your changing at work doesn't involve get naked so you aren't seeing your co-workers genitalia.

yo Gnasher

if trans people really do have a different brain, why isn’t a basic brain scan the diagnostic criteria for gender dysphoria?

the diagnostic criteria is based only on sexist stereotypes

We have been derailed.

The newest community disruptor doesn't want us to discuss this poll's results.

He could have started his own thread to solicit women's opinions. He could have just read existing threads without posting at all. But he came onto this thread, and appears to have gone silent just after the OP @ArabellaSaurus gave up trying to bring the thread back on track.

ETA: he appears to have come back after a break.. He's still a derailer. ENDETA

He came here with one purpose: to stop Arabella from telling us about this poll's results.

We should look at why he wanted to do that.

But you're lying.
The daughter is in peril.
Women have been raped by transwomen.
What are you talking about?

I hope you're not a parent, putting a child at risk by not telling the truth?

All good points and I do not know the answers.
I don't think girls feeling do not matter, and I hope this can all be settled somehow.
Maybe with a third changing room.

Yet you haven't given any rational explanation for your belief that trans women are women.

Shut up, there's no way this is for real.