Girlguiding faces legal action from parent over trans policy

[Misla]

Good. Well done that parent!

Charity is accused of failing to follow Supreme Court ruling on gender, leaving girls ‘exposed to harassment’

Girlguiding is facing legal action from a parent over its transgender policy which she claims discriminates against her seven-year-old daughter.

The claimant, who has asked to remain anonymous to protect her daughter’s identity, has alleged in a pre-action letter to Girlguiding that the organisation’s policy “exposes girls to harassment”.

Under the policy, trans girls — boys who identify as girls — are allowed to join Girlguiding, and trans women — adult males who identify as female — are permitted to undertake volunteer roles previously reserved for women.

“It constitutes and encourages unwanted conduct which violates their [girls’] dignity or creates an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating or offensive environment,” the correspondence said.

“This includes, but is not limited to: sharing toilets, showers or changing facilities with boys, contact sports with boys, and sharing accommodation with boys, all without their prior knowledge or consent.”

The letter goes on to point out that Girlguiding operates “as a charity for the benefit of girls and young women”.

Girlguiding faces legal action from parent over trans policy

Regarding Scouts, although they are a mixed sex organisation, I believe they're still allowing children who have been encouraged to believe they're the wrong sex to sleep, etc. with children of the sex they identify as. I hope I'm wrong, if anyone knows better?

Plenty join scouting.

I suspect that poster has only a vague knowledge of the sections of Girl Guidiing and has clung onto the one to two they've heard of. Anyone who has actually been involved in Guiding could name - Rainbows (4 -7), Brownies (7 - 10), Guides (10 - 14), Rangers (14 - 18).

Even a quick look at the GG website could have told them this.

Scouts is not specifically for children with a feminine presentation, i.e. those who want to do "girly" things.
Not that GG is just for girly things (far from it) but I assume that is what the trans girls are looking for.
If a trans girl (male child) was happy to join scouts instead of GG, he would have done that already.

Explain carefully which boys you're going to allow to join GG and which are excluded.

I've had two teenagers become romantically involved during my time as a Guide leader. They were both actual girls and all we had to do was say "if you want to gaze into each others' eyes save it for an actual date" but at camp with one of those "girls" being male? That IS a risk and not one GG is acknowledging.

I smell a trans parent here. As Helen Joyce has noted, they can't ever admit that trans kids are not a thing, because to do so, would be to admit to abusing their own children horribly. They're in it for life.

Last I checked, while Scouts is mixed sex, they still allow self-ID, so there's nothing stopping trans-identifying children from using the bathrooms/sleeping facilities of their chosen gender rather than biological sex. I don't think this has changed since the SC judgement, but could be wrong.

So while I'm a Guide leader and share everyone's concerns about current policies, I think it's only fair that other organisations face similar scrutiny.

If this gross misunderstanding of the SCJ and the EA is common, then I might be on the way to understanding why so many companies etc. are having trouble implementing the law and are wailing for "guidance"

It's not an excuse mind you, legal advice is available. Lawyers exist.

But I had no idea that the above nonsense was what some people actually believe.
BTW "wailing" is not a typo lol.

"I'd rather spend time with people who affirm my misogynistic bullshit and don't make reasonable arguments as to why I'm wrong"

Yes, I'm sure the Guides and Brownies have never focussed on those things 🙄

These kids now have access to porn on their phones. Ten year olds! And younger. As well as a whole load of grooming sites and trans nonsense. They ARE a danger and they are IN danger themselves. None of it is good

Yes. You really have to wonder what kind of grown man wants to be a girl guide leader?
I mean, girl guides, like cheerleaders schoolgirls etc are a known fetish for some men. Horrendous as that is.

That's really interesting. Whatever the "trans girls are girls" idiots think, safeguarding is an obvious issue, and so is privacy, especially for teenagers going through puberty. But I hadn't thought at all about outdoor activities and how they are different for boys and girls.

I found it quite unsettling that currently on the GG shop, they are selling adult sized 90's style Brownie t-shirts. Not adult uniform for Brownie Guiders but the old style children's uniform in adult sizes.

This kind

If we accept this then we have to acknowledge that trans girls are male.
We cannot support stealthing.
We have to put safeguarding in place that we don't have mixed sex sleeping or toileting or washing.
Teenagers are going to teenage whatever their sex or however they identify.
If nothing else how would a trans girl feel about being put on a birth certificate as a father or being up on a charge of sexual assault by deception.

Brrrrrrr ugh

Yes him! Urrrrrgh. How GG didn't see the huge red flags all over this one is baffling

Having an environment where girls can be themselves, free from judgment, is all about discrimination.

It is being able to lawfully discriminate that allows women to have spaces of their own. However, that discrimination does not mean that you can have a club which is "girls and some boys" as that would be direct discrimination against the particular group of boys that were not accepted. It may also be indirect discrimination for the girls as well.

"Which is presenting any none female in the program as a threat to their inclusion or safety."

Someone once said this, talking generally rather than specifically about the guides, but I think it is still appropriate in this situation:
.

There are various rationales for the need for women-only spaces. These include:

Women have an interest in self-determination. The role of women in society has, historically, been disproportionately determined by others, that is, men. For this reason it is particularly important that women, without men - the ‘others’ who did all the previous determining - are able to decide matters of importance themselves. Women need spaces of their own in order to self-determine, but also, by the act of creating spaces in which to be inaccessible, women are also exercising self-determination.

Self determination particularly justifies exclusion in spaces where there is the chance for women to talk and raise consciousness. This allows women to talk openly about and debate issues of interest from a female view without the presence of men.

Women also have an interest in respite from men; a break from male attitudes, expectations and behaviours. Women and men are generally socialised very differently, and this leads to differences in the average behaviour of women and men, which colours their interactions. Women are required to deal with these male attitudes, expectations and behaviours in mixed-sex spaces. Women-only spaces can provide an important respite from this.

There is no reason to think that transitioning (which does not necessarily involve hormones or surgery) would switch someone from demonstrating male-typical behaviour patterns to female-typical patterns. If trans-identifying men will bring some or all of these male-typical attitudes, expectations and behaviours into these spaces then that is, on its face, reason to exclude trans-identifying men from those spaces.

This rationale does not depend on it being the case that a particular male person would in fact bring male-socialised behaviours into a space. It is enough that women have to manage this possibility when men are around. Women-only spaces provide respite not just from certain sorts of behaviours, but from having to make contingency plans about what to do in light of certain sorts of behaviours - from being on guard.

Just spotted this slightly bizarre thread on Active.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/ami_beingunreasonable/5440998-girl-guide-thread?utmcampaign=thread&utmmedium=appshare

Edited to add, Ah, it's been deleted. OP was claiming that Scouts was set up by Lord Mountbatten.

That was a limited edition retro range for leaders. GG are launching a new uniform in 2026 for all sections and one of the bits of feedback from current leaders was how much everyone loved the 90s uniform (probably as it was the time that many current leaders were guides and brownies themselves). It has been massively popular with the current leaders.

Apologies, i did clarify on the thread that I’d got that wrong and it was baden Powell. It was then rightly deleted.

Really? I was a Brownie in the 90's, wore that uniform and have also been a Guider in a Brownie unit. It's not something I can imagine ever buying. Where on earth would you wear it? Are Leaders allowed to wear it at actual meetings or events?

The retro range was just sweatshirts, I think, or that was all I saw being worn? Fine for leaders and the girls to wear.