Girlguiding faces legal action from parent over trans policy

[Misla]

Good. Well done that parent!

Charity is accused of failing to follow Supreme Court ruling on gender, leaving girls ‘exposed to harassment’

Girlguiding is facing legal action from a parent over its transgender policy which she claims discriminates against her seven-year-old daughter.

The claimant, who has asked to remain anonymous to protect her daughter’s identity, has alleged in a pre-action letter to Girlguiding that the organisation’s policy “exposes girls to harassment”.

Under the policy, trans girls — boys who identify as girls — are allowed to join Girlguiding, and trans women — adult males who identify as female — are permitted to undertake volunteer roles previously reserved for women.

“It constitutes and encourages unwanted conduct which violates their [girls’] dignity or creates an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating or offensive environment,” the correspondence said.

“This includes, but is not limited to: sharing toilets, showers or changing facilities with boys, contact sports with boys, and sharing accommodation with boys, all without their prior knowledge or consent.”

The letter goes on to point out that Girlguiding operates “as a charity for the benefit of girls and young women”.

Girlguiding faces legal action from parent over trans policy

Its not formal uniform so not official events but its part of the casual wear range so you can wear it on camp / brownie holiday etc.

I once bumped into a hen party who had all bought the largest sizes of the current brownie uniform top to wear on their pub crawl. Now that I did think was weird!

There was a sweatshirt and a tshirt for both brownies and guides. A lot of it has sold out and im not sure if they are making more.

It's been very popular - loads of leaders locally wearing it as casual wear on camps etc. I wore it to a non-Guiding camping trip this summer and enjoyed the comments! I also got the tote bag which is really nice quality and makes me smile. It really is just 30+ somethings having a bit of nostalgia, nothing sinister. And probably a great money spinner for GGUK!

That makes me so happy to hear. It sounds like a lot of guide leaders have been quietly getting on with being sane and supportive of girls while the leadership have gone bonkers. Thank you for your compassion for girls.

It is discriminating against girls if you include boys in a girls only space. It is discriminating against some boys if you only let boys who identify as girls join but not boys who don't identify as girls. It is harassment if you tell girls they must pretend that a boy is a girl and make them share their toilets, changing rooms and sleeping quarters with boys.

This is so true

Girlguiding’s approach doesn’t remove anything from other girls

It removes one of the most intrinsic factor of GG, the single sex space. That impacts every GG in the country and possibly overseas.

Girlguiding can still be a girl-only organisation and include trans girls

The goal of TRAs everywhere.

Desperate not to make these organisations mixed sex, because the validation disappears. The sole presence of unconsenting girls is crucial,

Get em young and train them up to learn their rightful place as second class Bekind service bots.

Guides WAS about empowering girls; about time they were taught the proper fuction and role of females.

I do hope any girls questioning the presence of vulnerable boys in their spaces are being suitably chastised, shamed, and re educated.

This is why I wouldn't let my child join Brownies or Guides. I cannot agree with the policies and I would not let her attend for things like camps sharing tents, showers etc.... with biological males.

It is sad as I know she would absolutely love it, but as I dont trust them to safeguard girls it leaves me as a parent no choice.

Yes, I let Rainbows quietly fall.away after this all became apparent. It is a pity, some of the stuff they do looks good.

Tumbleweed.

Let's continue on this.

Brownies is up to 10. Then what happens?

Let's give the benefit of doubt and pretend there's no issue with ten year old boys and sexual harassment despite the evidence.

Let's assume that we are prepared to sacrifice the privacy and dignity of ten year old girls who are maybe just starting their periods and finding the prospect of undressing amongst girls daunting enough without boys adding to the mix. (This meaning that drop out of camp).

What happens at Guides. Are male children then kicked out at this point because safeguarding? Or do you let them continue until say age 13 because of the age of statutory rape. Or do you say well they are only minors. How do you explain to the Muslim parents when little Dorothy is growing full facial hair and whose voice has broken and they are towering over the girls that yes they are definitely a girl, with a straight face?

Then what about Rangers. If you have said we are single sex, but oh actually you aren't single sex anymore and safeguarding starts to apply when you get to Rangers, what about hurty feelings then? How are you going to deal with the legal threat of that in order to safeguard the girls?

And then how do you deal with the leaders like the one from Nottingham who post inappropriate photos of themselves?

Honestly the practical implications and realities of this just are ignored by the evangelicals who choose to ignore reality and the need for safeguarding.

You can not decide to be single sex then decide to opt out when it suits. You just are mixed sex without safeguarding.

Guiding is at a crossroads. Either they obey the law, as clarified by the recent judgment, and go back to being single sex, or they become mixed sex open to all.
Throughout my life in Guiding
(joined in 1966 as a brownie, have been a young leader, Brown Owl, Guide and Ranger leader) we have always tried to be inclusive- for all girls. From all backgrounds, rich or poor, diverse cultures and religions, disabilities - all girls welcome.
When the girls and young women are asked if they want to become a mixed group- the answer is always NO! They go to mixed schools, they have male family members, we also do some joint meetings and camps with cubs or scouts, but the girls have always said they want guiding to be a girl only space.
I asked our Rangers (16-18 in age) what they thought a few years ago. There had been some discussion amongst them about a boy they all knew who had decided to transition. They were sympathetic, felt sorry for them but said (unprompted from me) they wouldn’t feel comfortable with them sharing accommodation and private space as they knew they were male. As for a fully mixed sex group- “We’d have just joined Scouts Avery! We like it all girls here”

Girls benefit from this female only space- we do everything the boys do, plus what girls want to do. We play football, and rounders (and pancake tennis but that’s another story!). We find out about Parliament and women’s rights, we climb mountains and we do crafts and play silly games. We go camping and we use computers- we have sisters all around the world.

Why should we give this up in order to satisfy these males with special feelings?

What I fear might happen is Guiding becomes mixed, but changes the program and emphasis to more “girly “ stuff. More pink sparkles, less adventure.

Hi all,
When I was a kid I used to love the Famous Five books. George pretended she was a boy. It was because she wanted to be able to do the activities and have the adventures that the boys did. She didn’t want to stay at home and prepare food with Ann These books were written in the 1950s when society had certain expectations of girls and women. Fortunately we have come a long way since then. Girls can now do anything. A woman can stand up and lead a room full of men, or go to work in a hard hat, or be a mountaineer. I do all of these things and in my experience society doesn’t bat an eyelid. And if a woman wants to, she can still be a stay at home mum. I did this too
and again no one batted an eyelid. I think Girlguiding contributed to this fortunate position. Guides certainly gave me the confidence to be myself. However there is still much more to be done. There are lots of girls who havent taken advantage of the changes in societal expectations or are yet to believe that they can do anything and that their dreams can become reality . I really hope that Girlguiding sorts out its identity/credibility crisis so that future girls can benefit from the girl only space which can help them to find their confidence.

Unfortunately, I don’t feel that society has come as far in changing its expectations of men / boys. Men cannot yet do anything. How harshly are they judged by their peers if they choose to be the stay at home dad, or work part time. How many of us would be horrified if our husbands or sons were to wear nail varnish ( me included I’m ashamed to admit). Do some boys / men feel that they can only gain the freedom to do what they want if they call themselves ‘girls’ or ‘women’, just like George called herself a ‘boy’ so that she could do the activities she wanted?

Maybe we won’t stop men and boys from trying to join girl only spaces until we change our image or expactions of men and boys within society. I don’t have a solution for how this change coukd be expedited. Any ideas?
Lets hope than one day everyone will truly be able to do anything, regardless of their sex. Let’s hope that one day we will look back in horror ( or amusement) at today.

I’m of a generation where men were able to wear make up and dress more adventurously - the 1980s gave men a lot of changes

i don’t know why that stopped

Absolutely @midgetastic

Finally. GG has just updated the diversity policy.
We are single sex for members.

The statement is with bad grace but thank goodness the law and sense has prevailed

Depressing how many leaders are kicking off about it on Facebook

But didn’t most GC leaders get kicked out or bullied out?

That's what I thought. Leaving many subservient trad wife type in thrall to the wonder and demands of men?

as a parent I got this email claiming it is “with a heavy heart” and offering email responses. So let’s inundate them with emails giving support for common sense! [email protected]

I’ve just received the email. I’ve never read such a load of rubbish in my life. Ridiculous pandering statement. Boys have had so much throughout history, so many opportunities, and one of the few places that girls can go just to be with other girls and only girls, is saying they can’t accept non girls ‘With a heavy heart’ fgs.

That's being sarcastic - and a bit mean. Apologies. I'm certain there are countless leaders focused on the needs of girls despite the leadership.

Its all about how sad they are that boys and men can no longer LARP as Girguides.
Still unclear about the dodgy male leaders.