Girlguiding faces legal action from parent over trans policy

[Misla]

Good. Well done that parent!

Charity is accused of failing to follow Supreme Court ruling on gender, leaving girls ‘exposed to harassment’

Girlguiding is facing legal action from a parent over its transgender policy which she claims discriminates against her seven-year-old daughter.

The claimant, who has asked to remain anonymous to protect her daughter’s identity, has alleged in a pre-action letter to Girlguiding that the organisation’s policy “exposes girls to harassment”.

Under the policy, trans girls — boys who identify as girls — are allowed to join Girlguiding, and trans women — adult males who identify as female — are permitted to undertake volunteer roles previously reserved for women.

“It constitutes and encourages unwanted conduct which violates their [girls’] dignity or creates an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating or offensive environment,” the correspondence said.

“This includes, but is not limited to: sharing toilets, showers or changing facilities with boys, contact sports with boys, and sharing accommodation with boys, all without their prior knowledge or consent.”

The letter goes on to point out that Girlguiding operates “as a charity for the benefit of girls and young women”.

Girlguiding faces legal action from parent over trans policy

Having the PC of GR does not give people the legal right to use single sex spaces of the opposite sex

This.

they have the protected characteristic of gender reassignment, Mammamumma, which means they cannot be discriminated against on the basis of it.

But the Supreme Court ruling clarified that they're not being discriminated against on that basis, (because girls who are trans can be included), but on the basis of their sex.

Hence the need to clarify that boys, however they identify, are still biologically male.

Absolutely, they can include boys ( which includes transgirls) but they cannot include transgirls, but not the rest of the boys. As soon as transgirls are included it becomes mixed sex - this goes against their stated aims.

They will still be trans inclusive. Transboys would and should be included - there was a time they GG started to say they weren’t welcome, with is totally transphobic and disgusting.

On the other hand, I find Misogyny pretty disgusting too.

Just to be clear, I didn’t bring sexuality into this. Others did, by implying that trans girls would somehow be a risk to other girls because of sexual intent or behaviour. That’s what I was responding to.

And honestly, that suggestion is what’s inappropriate here. We’re talking about children and young people who just want to belong somewhere safe. To assume that a trans girl’s presence automatically carries a sexual threat is not only wrong, it’s deeply damaging.

Girlguiding already has robust safeguarding processes that apply to everyone — that’s how we protect girls. Turning inclusion into a conversation about sex says more about adults’ prejudices than it does about the young people involved.

And please don’t use Muslim families as a reason to exclude trans girls. Girlguiding already handles faith and cultural needs sensitively, parents discuss sleeping arrangements, and safeguarding applies to everyone.No one is suddenly “put in a tent with a boy.” Trans girls are treated as girls and their presence is supported carefully - an inclusive culture for all faiths, abilities and genders should be celebrated.

Giving them access to a safe, affirming environment harms no one

Evidence for this quite extraordinary claim, please?

Trans means not
Trans girls are not girls
they are boys
from conception onwards they are male
and may not use female single sex spaces or facilities

Couldn't put it better. All this waffling about the Gender reassignment characteristic is completely irrelevant in relation to an single sex exemption being used..

Girlguiding already has robust safeguarding processes that apply to everyone — that’s how we protect girls

No it doesn't not when it treats men as if they were women. Not when their rule is not to inform parents that their daughter will be sharing a tent with a boy.

That's an offensive, nasty and manipulative response and an inaccurate reading of my post. I’ve never suggested women or girls exist to serve anyone, quite the opposite.

I believe all girls, including trans girls, deserve safety, respect, and the freedom to be themselves without being treated as a threat. Supporting a marginalised minority of young people doesn’t diminish women; it’s part of what equality actually means.

You seem to have very little compassion - do you work with young people?

Transgirls are boys

At the time this blew my mind. We had a transboy then who had been with us since Brownies and we just fudged it. She was young, vulnerable and autistic - as seems to be the way. I deal mainly in practicalities and there was no practical reason not to include her. Over the years she's dropped the trans and she's still involved in guiding.

believe all girls, including trans girls boys, deserve safety, respect, and the freedom to be themselves without being treated as a threat

fixed it for you

trans girls are boys. On what planet do you live that you cannot understand that teenage boys can be a threat to girls?

Logging off from this toxic thread — I’d rather spend my time with people who don’t mistake empathy for weakness, and who see that compassion and inclusion aren’t threats to feminism

Thinking men can be women is a threat to feminism

Just to be clear, I didn’t bring sexuality into this. Others did, by implying that trans girls would somehow be a risk to other girls because of sexual intent or behaviour. That’s what I was responding to.

Okay I can see where the confusion arose. Bringing lesbians into the argument did muddy the waters.

You do realise that teenage 'trans girls' are teenage males? You do realise how strong male pubescent sexuality is?
Many may be confused about their sexuality. Some will be gay males, some will be straight males. Some will be bisexual males.
It is daft and very naïve to think it is correct safeguarding to let male teenagers into female changing spaces and sleeping tents.
There absolutely is a risk, no matter how a male 'identifies'.
Even if a particular male child is "absolutely safe", policy is made by considering groups and classifications, not individuals. You can't run an organisation on a case-by-case basis.

And even if the poor male child is dosed up on hormones or puberty blockers, it is wrong as a matter of principle to let males into female spaces.

If your main priority is the inclusion of men and boys to the detriment of women and girls, you aren't a feminist. You are a male rights activist.

Funnily enough I worked with other leaders and we were a safe space for all our children.

Where is your compassion and empathy for the female children who don't want male children in their spaces?
Compassion goes both ways, unless you are just prioritising males.

I'll stop you right there:

It did not remove protection for trans people under the separate “gender reassignment” characteristic...

That's a strawman, nobody, nobody at all has said that.

...nor did it make it unlawful for organisations to include trans people if they choose to.

Another strawman, you're deploying a regular brigade of them!

The SC Judgment ruled that spaces and services described as single sex must be just that, in order to be legally compliant. Your ridiculous assertion that "transgirls" are not boys and should, therefore, be allowed access to female spaces / organisations, is scarcely worthy of contempt.

I was one of the leaders who brought sexuality into this and whilst I really, really wish it wasn't so, sex and sexuality has to be considered when safeguarding teenagers and increasingly pre-teens. Teenagers having sex isn't a recent phenomenon.
And whilst I am very GC and any grown man wanting to be in a female space can gtf, I am very conscious that young people I volunteer with are exactly that, young people who are often vulnerable. Young people who have been led down a path by bad faith actors. I don't want to demonise young girls or boys. But having said all that, I am also conscious of the horrifying amount of sexual assaults that happen at school.
It's a difficult safeguarding road to tread. But unfortunately sex and sexuality has to be a big consideration in safeguarding young people.

It doesn’t even have to be about the risk of sexual abuse. There is also the risk of “consensual” (noting that all Guides will be under the age of consent) sexual activity if you put male and female teens in the same sleeping area. And who will come back from Guide camp pregnant? Not the “trans girl”, that’s for sure.

That’s legal garbage.

Are Girl Guides still allowing transwomen, adult men, to lead and to go on sleepover events with young girls?

Sorry, if this has already been addressed, I've nrtff. When my kids went to Guides there were often a couple of young girls from Rangers helping out, so older teenagers. Would the current rules permit young men, if they claimed to be trans, to take those positions? How does non-binary fit in all this? Are they excluded or do they get to pick?

Lies.

Your posts are full of lies and that is not acceptable.

@Mammamumma
Trans girls are treated as girls and their presence is supported carefully...

...because you know they are actually boys.

Any toxicity on this thread was within the posts you made.