A Question of Some Considerable Delicacy

[theilltemperedmaggotintheheartofthelaw]

Ever since FWS, we've been told by TRAs that the country is awash with transwomen who are heartbroken and terrified because they've been told to stop using women's facilities, and this has outed them to their colleagues.

I'm finding this hard to believe, because I have virtually never mistaken a transwoman for a woman. There have been previous threads about this, from which I gather that the scientific consensus is that humans are very good at sexing other humans from an early age.

Maybe I am just wrong, though, and have been fooled many times. And maybe some people aren't very perceptive. According to a recent thread, Morgane Oger thinks he could only accurately sex about 70% of a mixed crowd; a PP on the same thread thinks Maya Forstater looks like a man.

So I would like to hear other people's experiences of this (please try not to insult or offend!). Were you ever surprised, when a woman turned out to be a man?

This piece about Kelly v Leonardo reveals the mindset:

https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2025/10/terf-employee-admits-to-secret-cis-only-bathroom-at-work-i-wont-sacrifice-my-privacy-my-dignity/

Kelly also admitted to speculating over her colleagues’ gender identities and tracking their bathroom usage, telling the tribunal that over a period of six to nine months, she identified three people she believed to be trans who were using the women’s restrooms.

This seems to misrepresent what was happening. MK was not speculating: she knew that they were men, surely?

I'm interested primarily in what this means for the law, in particular in relation to Article 8 ECHR (right to private life). TRAs interpret this as an unlimited right to conceal one's sex in every situation. But how can even a limited such right exist, if there is no way in reality that such concealment can reliably be achieved, from everyone, all of the time?

Are they actually demanding the right to force everyone to pretend to be fooled? That's not a privacy right.

That one was a precious gem.

But most are is the point as proven by consumerist patterns. And given the essence of sex is distinctive characteristics, common associations matter.

But that's how scientists will identify the sex of our skeletons in years to come. Whether we are clutching a carrier bag from 'the mall" or not

Are you suggesting all women do? It was you that explained older women aren't mistaken for men because their body shape, size and skin is recognisably female.

We don't know if PP passes and in a sense it doesn't matter. Passing is just a millstone, condemning everyone to a lifetime of angst about being outed, incentivising them to wreck their health with drugs and surgeries, and forcing the rest of us to pretend, even when they don't pass. And we need honesty about sex, for safeguarding, medical safety, scientific accuracy, and sex-based rights.

Why can't male transsexuals be out and proud (I know everyone hates Debbie Hayton, but he's sort of in the right zone)? Why can't she say "here's your coffee, I really admire you for living your best life, what's it like being trans"? But she can't, because it's misgendering and transphobia.

Because the deception enables the control and the power trip.

It’s even more thrilling for some men when they know they don’t pass at all.

Look at Tiktoker Lillytino for an example.

Really, you need organic personal preferences explained? A person can't prefer a choice without external influences?

I'm getting that conservative monkey see monkey do feeling again.

They used to say the same about homosexuality too..

Pigeons aren't very consistent are they? 😂😂😂

Pigeons organically gravitate towards breadcrumbs, because that’s all they can find to contribute.

Wait, what, we can't see the facial bones of living people???

😂😂😂

Firstly, you don't know they haven't been mistaken. There are clearly women who are in the male range of height, frame with masculine facial features. See the Olympics. And given the trans panic there's also been many reported cases of cis women being harassed in public bathrooms.

https://www.vox.com/2016/5/18/11690234/women-bathrooms-harassment

Bollocks.

Katie Ledecky has been incessantly accused of being trans.
https://www.snopes.com/news/2023/07/27/katie-ledecky-trans-rumors/

Really, yes. You're saying that women are programmed by their physical bodies to want to wear certain types of clothing?

We're talking about clothing, not sexuality. You're really jumping the shark now.

Women aren't in the male range of height. They're in the female range, by definition.

They are when they're shitting all over the place.

As many people have pointed out, is it likely that both men skipping round the ladies while we are blissfully unaware and slightly masculine looking women being attacked as “men” are happening regularly? I personally call bullshit on one of those propositions at least. Or both.

Really, you need organic personal preferences explained? A person can't prefer a choice without external influences?

A woman conforming to a stereotypically female style of clothing isn't doing so without external influences. She's doing it because it's the conventional thing to do and other people around her expect her to dress like that.

Clothing choices don't occur in a vacuum without external influences.

Both women & men enhancing their sexuality for purposes of being considered more attractive is hardly without an uncontroversial biological imperative towards reproduction consciously or unconsciously. That this needs to be explained tells how perverse gender critical ideology is.

How old are we talking here? I'm 54 and look much as I did ten years ago - before menopause hit me. Perhaps when I'm 90, if I make it that far, I'll look more mannish eh?

Is it organic gravitation when people like Grayson Perry say wearing stereotypically women’s clothing, or girls’ clothing, gives him an erection?

Depends on the individual. Katie Delecky is only in her twenties.