J.K Rowling's Position

[middler]

I am not a regular on these boards but I am aware of the controversy over J K Rowling's position as I have encountered so many young people who have become very hostile with me if I do not show that I do not go along with them in their views that she is the equivalent of a racist in her attitude towards racists. I try and stay neutral and not declare my views but that is not enough for them. They want tos ee you express the same vitriol that they have so they can be assured you are on the same side. I find it so anti democratic frankly.

Privately I was relieved with the British ruling that means trans women who may well still have a penis and all the bad actors who could then take full advantage of a law that allowed transwomen into women only spaces, are not allowed to access those women spaces. I appreciate that most transwomen just want to go about leading their daily lives identifying as women and using women spaces is part of that and they have no ill intent. But many do not have bottom surgery and so yes they still have a penis as do the men who can just wake up one day and say they identify as a woman and start using those women only spaces and not have good intent? What am I missing? Why don't the younger generation see this and get that it is a huge risk to women? Do they think that there will be no bad actors? I just do not get it. The law is not to punish transwomen. It's to protect women.

I am not without sympathy for transwomen who genuinely feel uncomfortable going into male spaces. I appreciate that they identify as female but I just feel it's a conflict of rights and that you cannot sacrifice the right of women to feel safe in a women only space so that the smaller % of transwomen do not feel uncomfortable. Safety trumps comfort.

I personally would not react to a transwoman being in a female toilet but then I am aware how do I know it is a genuine transwoman and not a bad actor so I appreciate other women not being comfortable.
Maybe we need additional gender neutral toilets in this day and age.

But when this topic comes up with many younger people I can tell that the fact that I do not join in with the hatred for JK Rowling, that it puts me in the pro JK Rowling camp and I do agree with her support of ensuring that law got passed.

I am not so sure about the comments she made about kids not being trans as I think some kids as teens do seem to think they are in the wrong gender, maybe not in the large numbers that we are seeing today but clearly some people do feel they were born in the wrong gender and as a society I think we do have to support them without sacrificing the rights of an other group.

Rowling has never expressed hate for transpeople as far as I am aware. I do think she can be provocative in how she expressed her views and that is her choice but I just do not understand how the younger generation claim she is the equivalent of a racist but with trans rights? The language they use about her is so strong and I really try to avoid conversations about her because it has become so divisive- it is hard to find a millennial who does not agree with Emma Watson's viewpoint.

I am not 100% up to date with all Rowling has said but what has she said that is so bad that the younger generation have such deep hatred for her? I am just trying to understand it better and be ready to respond to the vitriol I get from younger colleagues when it comes up as it does seem to.

"people who have become very hostile with me if I do not show that I do not go along with them in their views"

The exact same is true of certain quarters of MN, where anything other than outright subscription to GC ideology and an anti-trans stance is met with hostility and aggression.

Both are symptoms of tribalistic thinking, and both are deeply unwelcome.

Long pre Musk I reported a twitter account that posted a picture of a woman with her breasts nailed to a table

nothing happened

then I left Twitter

it’s always been a misogynistic shit hole

"dodgy" aka 'victim blaming' = self responsibility.

What do you think is so 'ideological' about women wanting their sex based rights respected and the law upheld?

Have a good week. 🙂 And yes, most of us meet transpeople in our life and workplace and we are determined to treat them with respect and kindness, just as we would with anybody else. But at the same time we can see the emperor has no clothes. The difficulty is knowing when it's appropriate to say so. The potential harm to young and vulnerable people is such that I don't think we can justify keeping quiet all of the time. I'm trying to master the art of quietly voicing dissent without sparking a row. It's a work in progress.

I was sad when your original post was interpreted by a couple of people as being in bad faith. Since then (and particularly since 02.16 today), you've seen the true colours of one particular poster who epitomises what we're up against, and explains why some here are so suspicious and easily triggered. This also illustrates what JKR has to deal with, day after day, and why some people perceive her as having become radicalised and obsessed. When talking to young friends and workmates, you could quietly mention her charities, or (if you dare) her good work funding legal test cases to protect women's rights.

Blah blah blah, blah blah blah.

"Now, would you like to post the provocation you keep claiming is the excuse for the violence and the abuse?"

According to you all the 'evidence' proving 'innocence' is still there. Now go fetch since you 'still have access'.

It isn’t ‘tribalistic’ to want to keep men out of women’s SSS, it’s common sense and based on facts. People can try and dress up men pretending to be women (see what I did there) however they like, but if they’re men it’s a NO, it was NO yesterday, it’s NO today and it’ll be NO tomorrow.

I think this is the most disgusting of your posts I have read so far.

OP, below is a copy of a tweet posted by JKR last month which explains her position (and the majority posters in this board).

Copied from Nitter
J.K. Rowling@jk_rowling29m
As another man who once worked with me declares himself saddened by my beliefs on gender and sex, I thought it might be useful to compile a list for handy reference. Which of the following do you imagine makes actors and directors who aren’t involved with the HBO reboot of Harry Potter so miserable?
Is it my belief that women and girls should have their own public changing rooms and bathrooms?
That women should retain female-only rape crisis centres?
That men don’t belong in women’s sport?
That female prisoners shouldn’t be incarcerated with violent men and male sex offenders?
That women should remain a protected class in law, because they have sex-specific needs and issues?
That language should reflect reality rather than ideological jargon, especially in a medical context?
That women shouldn’t be harassed, persecuted or fired for refusing to pretend humans can change sex?
That women should not be threatened with violence and rape when they assert their rights?
That freedom of speech and belief are essential to a pluralistic democratic society?
That troubled minors, especially those who are gay, autistic and trauma-experienced, should be given mental health support instead of irreversible surgeries and drug treatments on non-existent evidence of benefit?
That gay people shouldn’t be pressured to include the opposite sex in their dating pools, nor should they be smeared as ‘genital fetishists’ when they don’t?
That cross-dressing heterosexual male fetishists aren’t actually oppressed, but having the time of their lives piggybacking off gender identity ideology?
That said ideology, and the privileged, blinkered fools pushing it because they suffer zero consequences themselves, have done more damage to the political left’s credibility than Trump and Farage could have achieved in a century?
Let me have your thoughts.

There’s a whole thread asking the posters who tell us they don’t agree with us, what it is they actually disagree with about the above. Not one of them has responded yet.

Basically @Howseitgoin doesn't think women have the right to say no to men, won't listen to them, victim blames them and holds them culpable for male bad behaviour, won't respect their lack of consent.

Its the exactly the same position as the incels when you strip it back

Yeah, that guy keeps my scrolling thumb busy.

The rules of misogyny come to mind -

Women are responsible for what men do

Women saying no to men is a hate crime.

Women speaking for themselves are exclusionary and selfish.

Women’s opinions are violence against men, thus male violence against women is justified.

Women and Feminism must be useful to men or they are worthless.

Women who go around being female AT men by menstruating and breastfeeding babies deserve punishment.

Women should always be grateful to men for everything.

Men are whatever men say they are and women are whatever men say they are.

Men always know the “real reasons” for everything women do and say.

The worst thing about male violence is that it makes men look bad.

Whatever women suffer from, it is worse when it happens to men.

Women’s ability to recognize male behavior patterns is misandry.

Angry women are crazy. Angry men have trouble expressing themselves.

Women have all the rights they need: The right to remain silent.

Men are the default human. Women are strange subhuman others.

Everyone owns and controls women’s bodies except the women themselves.

Absolutely

Incels come in many forms

Well, quite.

I'm always a bit astounded at the amount of ploppers who are determined to openly declare that they are against women's rights. Against women's legal right to single sex services. Against women being able to talk about issues which affect them.

They might as well have a massive lit up sign saying 'men are more important than women' with a hooter that periodically sets off a trumpet fanfare.

A million times this

Why do I need to provide proof of innocence?

What possible justification is there for the posts in the first place? If you think women saying ‘I don’t believe you should access female single sex provisions’ is suitable provocation you have a very warped sense of proportionate action.

However, this is a list of women recording the threats made in person or on twitter , all found via twitter search today

https://x.com/evaplopp/status/1970810215215014108?s=46

https://x.com/crit_gen/status/1616779008687083520?s=46

https://x.com/jk_rowling/status/1963465628053848363?s=46

https://x.com/womenreadwomen/status/1900820249726898594?s=46

https://x.com/daily_mailus/status/1715780922543382846?s=46

https://x.com/blablafishcakes/status/1914256372645978451?s=46

https://x.com/womensrightsnet/status/1914980961911033983?s=46

I am very happy to find more. We have threads with videos of women being physically assaulted and intimidated at events around the world as well as more from the UK that we haven’t posted. Would you like us to post them too?

Here is a reminder of the type of content that used to stay up on twitter despite reporting. The ‘Shut the fuck up Terf’ meme with a gun was very much left up on twitter before Musk’s team.

https://x.com/ratciclefan/status/1956164701370396702?s=46

https://x.com/lautrea/status/1920478637251576014?s=46

https://x.com/yoodio_todo/status/1626365163141222402?s=46

https://x.com/andy_frost/status/1610360847481864192?s=46

https://x.com/kraywhiseheart/status/1620292942354345985?s=46

Howse

Of course what Terf Is A Slur.com won't conveniently show is the preceding provocations.

Provocation? Saying no to men in women's spaces and sports is hardly deserving of graphic rape and death threats, complete with axes, knives, baseball bags studded with nails and barbed wire, guns.

It's wholly and vastly disproportionate and unhinged. I can't believe that you actually think the examples on terfisaslur were justifiable, or in any way to be excused.

You really, REALLY suck at being human.

Remember though, we are told that we should not simply expect male people who demand to be treated as female people to simply lie down and accept their oppression!

While women are expected to do just that. And saying no, kindly, or bluntly, seems to be considered suitable provocation in some people’s opinion to justify threats of rape and violence, assaults, abuse and intimidation.

This is a group of male people who believe it is appropriate for them to post images and videos of themselves in female single sex spaces knowing that the policies and ultimately the law excludes them. They think it is protesting. Whereas women are threatened and intimidated by seeing those images and videos.

Which is the point. When female people who disagree have been dehumanised, then threats and intimidation is ok. Because they are no longer human.

It is bonkers.

well said. There is no possible “provocation” for men to justify threatening women with rape, torture or murder. It’s concerning someone thought that was a reasonable gotcha.

Exactly as Helle said.

did you just tell a woman to “go fetch”? Seriously? Now come on we talked about this. We use kind words. We also remember to eat a biscuit when you’re hungry and open a window. Now please go and find the information you have said shows women provoked males into threatening them with death, violence and rape.

Absolutely! Just like a bitch should be directed.

The same one who leveraged the horrors of Israel / Gaza to intimidate women by providing yet another chilling victim blaming account of what will happen to women who do not agree with that poster and others like them.

I really do hope that the OP does read the posts and considers them carefully. The daily posts are rather illustrative.

By the way, @UnintentionalArcher , here are some more examples if you needed to see them.

;;;"Now, would you like to post the provocation you keep claiming is the excuse for the violence and the abuse?";;;

According to you all the 'evidence' proving 'innocence' is still there. Now go fetch since you 'still have access'.

I notice he hasn't gone and fetched his imaginary "provocation," for some inexplicable reason.