Waterside Arts Centre Sale clearly ignoring Supreme Court

[SigrunGard]

i was at the Waterside last night with my partner. The Women’s was marked “women’s” but then written on the door in large letters was something to the effect of please feel free to use whichever facilities” match your gender identity or gender expression “. Mentioned it to my partner who said the same was on the door to the men’s ( he said someone asked a friend what that meant and the reply was apparently” some modern bollocks” - hard to argue!)

I rather feel I should email them and point out that this is not right- anyone got suggestions for wording that doesn’t just make me sound bigoted!?

thanks

The vast majority on here are women so yes we are concerned with our safety and that of our daughters.

I don’t know how many of the transphobes in this thread are women.

Oh don’t be daft

@Jallypally are you in a relationship? Have children? Colleagues? Friends?

do you discuss this with them?

'campaign of hate'

AKA just use your own toilets lads.

Yawn. You can participate in the Emperor’s New Clothes 2025 style if you so wish. No one else has to and they aren’t transphobic for it either.

Nobody is "pretending" anything. It is you who has absolutely zero consideration for female people, clearly.

Women have good reasons to be wary of strange/unknown men in public places in which their undressed body or their biological function is centred. This is why these facilities were created: because of the differences between the sexes and the way that those differences can impact upon women - in a harmful or threatening way at worst, or creating discomfort at the very least.

Trans people are either male or female just like everyone else. They are not a discrete, or unique, type of human being that transcends the sex binary. They are people who, for whatever reason, like, prefer, desire, even feel they need to present and be seen as the opposite sex to that which they are. That's it.

Why have you not been campaigning for 'third' facilities all of this time, rather than trampling and denying the boundaries of female people - and centring the desires of male people in doing so.

Name calling is not very grown up and achieves nothing. Women here have been getting called names for many years, and having abuse screamed at them by people who seem to think they are somehow better people, morally righteous etc....but in reality who have absolutely zero emapthy for the needs and dignity of female people as a group.

Jallypally knows what a woman is when it suits them then?

I think it’s quite clear who the man is

Who are you responding to? If you want to discuss then you need to address and direct your points.

However, It comes across that you are simply out of your depth and so are resorting to juvenile name calling and accusation instead. I'm not sure what you think that will achieve?

We're grown ups here - with lives, professions, and with a wealth of knowledge and experience. We are not kids in a playground.

You are the only poster on this thread who portrays transwomen as boundary pushing / abusive because you seem to believe that they couldn't possibly stay out of women's single sex spaces. That they couldn't possibly follow the law. That they couldn't possibly have empathy and understanding towards the class of human they identify as.

That's a sweeping generalisation and not true. Some transwomen have never sought to dismantle safeguarding/ disregard women's boundaries. Others have realised that their presence in women's spaces was unwelcome, that acquiescence isn't genuine acceptance, that consent has been coerced. I have a lot of respect for people brave enough to admit they were wrong.

As for portraying transwomen as males? Well dude! That's just reality. Males are males. Many are not abusive. A significant amount are abusive/ enable abuse. Gender id is irrelevant. Abusive males don't wear handy labels so boundary violation can be all women have to go on. Don't want to be called an abuser/ enabler of abuse? Don't violate women's boundaries. Pretty fucking simple.

Your username’s certainly apt here.

There’s no need for them to create single cubicle loos (other than to meet the requirement for disabled facilities). They can just remove the signage and keep the two sets of loos single sex, as the law requires them to.

Job done. No drama. Little cost to them (replacing two doors). Probably the very easiest change any organisation, whether strapped for cash or not, could enact.

I believe the notion that predatory men are routinely presenting as trans women in order to abuse women in lavatories, or that banning all trans women from women’s lavatories is a proportionate response to that risk, is wrong. It is a trope promoted by those whose real priority is not safeguarding women but rather (quoting someone on this thread) “fighting gender ideology” (aka making life harder for trans people).
Violence against women by men is a very serious problem. If you think devoting time and resources to making the Waterside Arts Centre exclude trans women from their lavatories is a priority in the fight to end that violence, then I suppose I’ll leave you to it.

Maybe Jally the message should be to men. Men if you see a TW in the toilets #BeKind. And let us women pee in peace.

Ridicule is the best response

Dismissal, scolding, guilt by association, belittling.

Same old patriarchal bullshit.

In that case how can they be sure that everyone is using the correct toilet?

I wouldn't feel safe using a facility unless they could guarantee there are no men present.

The specification was introduced in 2024. Anything built before then doesn’t need to have a washing facility inside the same room as the toilet, as long as the toilet is in a separate room designed for one user at a time. Mixed-sex washbasins comply with the law.

If it’s not “routine”, whats an acceptable number of predatory men presenting as trans women in order to abuse women in lavatories, then?

How many predatory men presenting as trans women do women have to accept?

To save you some time, let’s skip over “It never happens” (it does) and “those aren’t genuine trans women” (how can anyone - including you - tell, and why should anyone care?)

Why are women’s feelings less important than men’s?

You're overcomplicating things, Jallypally - the law says men's, women's and accessible toilets, and that access to the sex segregated ones is on the basis of biological sex.
It's that simple, and doesn't require all the time and effort you put into opposing efforts to make this simple, straightforward, long-established configuration a reality in all public venues.

Transwomen are men. Their behaviour and characteristics are no different to other men in general.

A man in a space that is designated for female people is an intruder; someone who has knowingly breached boundaries. Women and girls have usually had a lifetime of men pushing and crossing boundaries for their own gratification; including sexual gratification and it makes them uncomfortable at least, and actively threatened at worst.

Voyeurism is when someone intrudes upon a private space in which they should not be, in which they know they should not be, and gets enjoyment, a thrill, or some kind of personal validation or 'feel good' strokes from that. We all know what it feels likes to have a man being voyeuristic, or worse, in our presence; but most often it is the obvious ' otherness' of male people that is disconcerting and uncomfortable. Female only spaces protect the privacy and intimate dignity of one's sex.

TW are, in fact, more often inclined to violate boundaries than men in general - because they feel entitled to do so and transgression is a big part of what it means to be transgender. Good men stay out of women spaces and they understand why. It is the men who keep encroaching that are the problem.

As I explained earlier when a discrete facility is provided ( a 'gender neutral' facility) alongside single sex facilities then everyone knows and understands what this implies. And everyone's physical needs as well as their dignity have been catered for, A man intruding in a female space would most likely be confronted by at least one woman who would re-direct him elsewhere.

In the short term some men will try their luck and push it.......but with time this would diminish. These sorts of things tend to be self policing. Once the provision of a third space/facility becomes the norm people will get used to it and the issue will fade.

There are obviously no guarantees in life, though.

A man intruding in a female space would most likely be confronted by at least one woman who would re-direct him elsewhere.

Why should women put themselves in danger by confronting TIMs?

This is both inappropriate and unacceptable, the safety of women and girls must come first.

I'm not sure what you are expecting, or wanting me to suggest?