A little piece of insight

[Tandora]

Into a topic so woefully misunderstood.

OP if you think women should be kind and accept biological men into their single sex spaces and categories just say it.

Agree. Yet that is what so many men and even women seem to think is, in fact, the entire purpose of female humans - to sort out men's problems.

It's quite funny really that men who identify as transwomen don't seem to have the same requirement to sort out everyone else's problems before their own. Almost like they're not real women, isn't it?

Bumped

Just as cheating husbands rewrite history (I've been unhappy for years) so do transactivists (I've known I was trans since I was 4).

Misunderstood, my arse.

It is a lie to tell a child that he or she can be medically and surgically altered to become the sex that he or she is not.

It's not about this though. You are stuck in a logic loop that you have constructed based on a really narrow set of assumptions that correspond to your own experience .

We need to simplify the conversation significantly.

A 6 year old tells you- when you call me a boy it causes me acute pain- I'm telling you I am a girl.

I am a girl with a penis- this is my reality. .

All you need to do is to hear them, to listen, and to understand that their experience is real . It may not be your experience. It may not be your understanding of what a girl is. That doesn't matter. What matters is the person in front of you.

The person in front of you is not a lie. They are real; their experience is real. If they grow up to have surgery it won't be because they think it will change anything about who they are or how they were born, it will simply enable them to live more comfortably in their own body, knowing that they externally appear how they internally feel. Thats it. It's got nothing to do with "lying".

There's an awful lot of people on the detrans subreddit who'd disagree with you there, and are incredibly angry at people like you who lied to them that they could change their sex.

No. I said Gender dysphoria is a medical condition.

Yes but are you going to answer our question?

As someone who has suffered from really debilitating OCD I know how much my distress in the moment would have been alleviated by those around me assisting in my obsessions and compulsions. It would have made it SO much easier for me if my husband had agreed that the things I thought were contaminated should all be thrown out instead of him patiently, kindly maintaining that the problem was not with those items, it was in my head.

But, guess what? He was right, and because of that I had to accept professional help with my distress and work on learning how to live with it. It hasn't completely gone away, I don't think it ever will, but it's part of me and I know how to manage it without expecting the world to re-make itself around my faulty logic.

Alleviating distress in the moment is the sticking plaster. The genuinely healing thing is the process of working on yourself so you don't need other people to collude in your alternative reality.

I've never told anyone they could "change their sex".

this is your language- rooted in your own narrow, logic loop.

Yeah. Mental illness is tough.

Still keep out of women’s spaces though yeah?

I'm sure it is. However instead of indulging it, parents have a responsibility not to lie to their kids and to tell them that no matter how they feel they will never be the opposite sex and to support their child with that reality.

Parents failure to say no and ideological bollocks is STILL the problem.

Also you seem to think that no one here is closely related to a child / young adult who comes out with this claptrap.

My brother retrospectively said this in his late twenties. There was no crying himself to sleep age 7 like he claims.

This in itself is a fantasy and a rewriting of reality. I've heard similar from others.

My distress was real too.
I cried constantly because I wanted to be a boy.
I tried to pee standing up - fortunately my parents were calm and understanding without being affirming.
I pulled at my genitalia to try and grow a penis.
I grew out of it.

Fine, lets switch "change their sex" to "be something they're not". My point still stands, there are many many people on that subreddit, most with gender dysphoria, who feel they were lied to by people they should have been able to trust. Parents, doctors, people who should have known what best for them.

Many of them now consider that they were mutilated.

So don't give me your bollocks that the best treatment for gender dysphoria is to support their delusions. We don't do that for any other mental illness, and it simply can't be the best choice for gender dysphoria either.

They’re not a girl with a penis though.

Asking again.

and adding. What prison estate.

What is recalled from our infant brain’s feelings isn’t always true to facts. Unbelievable, but true -our brains have fairly faulty recollection, you could even say our brains lie to us.

If this is true, I'm sorry to hear you went through this , and lucky for you that you grew out of it.

Many trans children unfortunately don't grow out of being trans.

Dint make the mistake of assuming your own personal experience is universal. It isn't.

Such a shame you seem to be struggling to keep up with the conversation. Do you need me to repeat myself again?

I see that the questions asking whether 'allowing them to participate in society in a manner which is compatible with their dignity, privacy and wellbeing' equates to a demand for women to give up their legal right to single sex services (specifically rape crisis services, hospital wards, prisons etc) are being studiously avoided.

As always, women are not your service humans, or human shields, or a resource to be exploited or everyone's mum.

We're not here as a validation service.

Encourage men to embrace their gender non conforming fellows instead of giving us weird little homilies.

Yes because their parents enable them to never face up to reality.

And then they demand everything.

They still don't change sex.

Actually, I think the analogy of hearing voices is a good one.

I have seen dozens of teenagers answer that yes, they are hearing voices when asked that specific question by social workers.

But it has always turned out to be that they are reporting their experience of inner monologue (or in some cases pretending in order to get attention).

Those who actually hear voices are thankfully very rare and it is treated as a sign of a mental illness not that the voices are actually real.

So thanks for that Tandora.

All you need to do is to hear them, to listen, and to understand that their experience is real.

And when do trans identified men do this to women explaining why they need their words and spaces?

Why do you feel women have some kind of duty to do this for men?

Of course they're not. Words have meanings and language only works if we stick to the agreed meanings of words and don't unilaterally change them to something else and tell everyone else they're bigots if they don't go along with the new meanings and what follows from them. In the case of the following words, we all know what they mean and they relate back to biology.

Girl - juvenile human female
Boy - juvenile human male
Woman - adult human female
Man - adult human male

Male - having a body organised around producing small gametes

Female mammal - having a body organised around having large gametes and the body parts and systems needed to gestate offspring, give birth and produce milk to feed her young until they can digest other food. Doesn't matter whether the female actually has those body parts, whether they function, whether she ever uses them for any of those purposes - she is female because that's how her body develops from conception on.

To describe a juvenile human male as a girl makes no sense at all. 25 years ago nobody would have been in any doubt whatsoever that a little boy who thought he was a girl with a penis needed psychiatric help. God knows how we've reached the point we have where otherwise intelligent people think we should treat his disordered thinking as literally true.

Ok I have read more of the thread now and am confused.

Do you mean that transgender medicine is now available that will cure the person of feeling the dysphoria, so that they are happy to live with being their biological sex?

Or do you mean that the transgender medicine available is actually going along with the dysphoria, e.g. by surgery, hormones etc. to pretend that the person can live as the opposite sex?