Trans people frightened to leave homes, says MP

[PrawnofthePatriarchy]

"Trans people are frightened to go out or use public toilets after the Supreme Court ruling which defined a woman in terms of biological sex, a Labour MP has said."

"Rachel Taylor, who is a member of the women and equality select committee, described the interim guidance put forward by the equality and human rights commission after the ruling as “dangerous” and “incorrect”."

www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/labour-party-conference-2025-live-keir-starmer-latest-news-v7zvhgqhg

Reminds of the Fran Lebowitz joke where she says that she was never as scared in New York at the height of 70s sleaze & crime as rural Southern men in very pro-gun states seem to be. My views on US gun laws are a bit more complex (tho I'm pro gun control) but I think the point applies more broadly.

We women have this risk all the time & we don't have residual male muscle etc to help.

There are men who don't know that??

I despair....

A lot gets lost when traditional knowledge and dialects die out.

In the West Country 'coupie down' means to crouch. So when a woman bore a girl, people would say "She 'ave 'ad a coupie-downer". Because girls coupie down to pee. It was just general knowledge.

MP has probably had a bunch of Sophie Molly followers instructed to write to their MP about it.

Meanwhile they are out and about with their activism intimidating women but otherwise claiming they can't possibly work.

If someone has believed in the righteousness of those male people on social media who have declared it is their moral right and basic human right to access female toilets when they are male, they will have little thought for the female people inside.

Yes. I'm reminded of those male people who say they've been "using female facilities safely and harmlessly" for years.

That's nice. Safely and harmlessly for them.

No thought for the women who may not have found their presence safe or harmless. But how would they know? Did they ask? Did they care? Or did they just assume, because that's where they believed they were entitled to be?

I am so pissed off about the performance I saw first hand this weekend and the sheer audacity of some of these activists.

Fact is there is more crimes where a man has attacked a woman in a toilet than a man attacking another man in a toilet

I'm so sorry that happened to you @hholiday and it's despicable that you've had to alter your own behaviour because of it.

I think your situation sums up how a lot of women feel.

That's interesting- I agree about the loss of local dialect & tradition.
Otoh why should this have to rely on traditional knowledge though to know this? Don't these men have wives or gfs? It's obvious from seeing the female body that women cannot wee standing up.

Why do they think women prefer the toilet seat down, I wonder?

What one Labour MP says needs to be seen in a context of a Labour conference where the trans anti-woman rally had to be cancelled, and the Labour Women's Declaration event had more people than the Stonewall one and the victorious For Women Scotland and Sex Matters is going round talking to delegates.

The battle inside Labour is ongoing right now, reality is moving forward. It is not over, but there is real progress. Obviously TAs are going to say stuff like this.

See the conference thread for more.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5416076-5416076-sex-and-gender-at-the-labour-party-conference?

It is entirely appropriate for females to have single sex provision. It is understandable that being excluded from single sex facilities is distressing for some males, it is also understandable that people have varying degrees of sympathy for these males.

The solution is not to include the distressed males in female provision - this undermines the purpose of the provision bring female only. The solution is for those who are distressed to access support for their distress so they can have fulfilling lives without limiting beliefs getting in the way.

I guess there are trans women who are scared to go out because they know that not everyone will be able to see them as they see themselves. That’s the biggest threat - the fact that not everyone out in the world will go out of their way to prop up their perception of themselves. Even if people are nice and ‘kind’ to them - if there’s an acknowledgement that they’re trans ‘oh you do your make-up far better than me’ or ‘you’ve got a great pair of legs’ or ‘that’s a flattering shade of lipstick you’re wearing’ - all those type of comments some women feel compelled to make because it’s our job to put people at ease, placate, budge over etc.. That’s possibly not enough and I imagine would lead to poor mental health in those whose mental health might not be in the best place anyway.

I don’t doubt that it’s hard being trans. Being seen for ‘what’ you are, rather than ‘who’ you are. It’s a feeling I totally sympathise with because I remember the first time I acknowledged that this was happening to me as a young girl, and the depression I felt as a result. There are many statistics cited that put Transwomen as being more likely to be violently assaulted than women. If that’s true then it’s bad - but when ‘violence’ can be the mere acknowledgement that you’re a transwoman rather than a woman, or a slight eyeroll at an outfit, then it’s difficult not to take some statistics with a large pinch of salt.

This claim is real in the same way that a man becoming a woman is real. We do not live inside other people's personal and carefully curated realities where the obvious evidence of your eyes doesn't exist if you wish hard enough.

I agree with posters who have suggested that the real fear is fear of encountering reality.

'#bekind' has a lot to answer for, as it has given transpeople the impression that they are universally accepted as such, and that they are convincingly good at it. Neither is true, and while being kind is A Good Thing, the old saying about being cruel to be kind applies here:

Making transwomen aware [not in an aggressively not-kind way, but with clarity] that they are still easily identifiable as biological males, and that they are not and never have been entitled to use the women's toilets would have been the kinder thing in the long run.

Giving them the idea that they really are women, that they are indistinguishable from women, and that they are entitled to us women-only facilities has set them up for this inevitable and awkward collision with undeniable realities about biology and society.

Some claim to be reacting with fear, but street demonstrations, violent threats and ostentatious use of women's toilets suggests that anger, misogyny and spitefulness are more widespread than fear.

Many moons ago I met two extremely camp gay men - twins. They used a couple of pubs local to me back then. One day they came into a cafe holding a birthday card which was bigger than the pair of them. One lad was in a gold lamé dress , his brother in a matching trouser suit. We all had to sign the card for their 50t birthday. They always seemed to use the gents with no bother.

Now , admittedly they were well known in that area. Still I suspect most toilets are pretty safe. After all , men ' just want to pee' as well?

And it still begs the question:

Even if men are in fear and trembling in their homes - yes it's very sad, but is it a reasonable remedy to require that women submit and take their clothes off for them and permit the use of their body for validation/sexual experiences/strip searches/up to and including assault if the man in question happens to be a White or a Bryson, have no access to resources if they cannot or will not do this, and accept that they cannot be homosexual?

If that cheers men up and means they feel happy and safe in society, is that a reasonable price to demand? In a sane world as apart from fantasy island?

Making transwomen aware [not in an aggressively not-kind way, but with clarity] that they are still easily identifiable as biological males, and that they are not and never have been entitled to use the women's toilets would have been the kinder thing in the long run.
Giving them the idea that they really are women, that they are indistinguishable from women, and that they are entitled to us women-only facilities has set them up for this inevitable and awkward collision with undeniable realities about biology and society.

Absolutely this. Not women's problem to solve. They are not entitled to access to women's facilities, and they need telling so. And so does the rest of the world. A shame that the media do not reflect that better.

So a minister speaks out about a small, marginalised, persecuted group who are expressing their valid concerns and fears and your response is "What a lot of drama over nothing". Really?

If you gaze for long into an abyss...

Are you paying attention?

The answer is no.

Try reading the thread. Carefully. Then apply some critical thinking and check it against your idea of a moral compass. Then come back to me.

We are finding it hard to understand why men are scared to go outside. Do you know?

To repeat what a great woman once said "If men who pretend they are women are scared to use the men's toilets then perhaps they should stop pretending they are women".

Can't speak for the other posters but I do not care about men who are upset because they can't use women's facilities. I also do not care about men who are upset because society will not pretend they are something which they are not.

I have done this twice and I still struggle to care about men who are afraid to leave their houses for no apparent reason

Just to clarify, are these the same men who are going into women's toilets and videoing themselves?

They're a small group, but none of the other adjectives are accurate.

They're the most pandered to minority in history.

Women finally being able to speak out and say, "No, we don't consent to men in our single sex spaces", with the backing of the Supreme Court, is not persecution.

It is taking back what is rightfully ours.

If this small group of men who don't want to be men believe they need separate spaces away from other men, they're welcome to campaign for that. I will support them. But they don't get to colonise women's spaces. Not anymore.