NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #54

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence was 29 July 2025. It resumed again over 1 to 2 September for closing submissions.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February 2025. Sandie Peggie returned to give more evidence on 29 July 2025.

Access to view the second part of the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to: [email protected].

The hearing was live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #50 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 51: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5402652-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-51 1 September 2025 to 2 September 2025
Thread 52: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5403218-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-52 2 September 2025 to 4 September 2025
Thread 53: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5404208-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-53 from 3 September

Yes, if there are multiple defendants any one of them can appeal if they lose. However, they can only appeal the findings against them. Upton cannot appeal any findings against Fife.

A participant in the case cannot appeal just because they disagree with the outcome. They must show:

• that the tribunal got the law wrong, or
• that there was no evidence to support its decision, or
• that the decision was perverse, i.e. no reasonably tribunal applying the law properly could have reached this decision, or
• that the tribunal failed to follow the correct process and this affected the decision

Unless they have credible arguments on at least one of these points, they will not be given permission to appeal.

She could have stripped naked for him and that would be taken as transphobic for flaunting a real female body in front of him.

I think my colleague has finally "got it." Honestly did not expect her to, wears the progress pride lanyard, pronouns in emails etc, but I think this case must have tipped it or caused a "wait a minute" moment for her. I reckon she asked me about it as I'm one of the only ones without pronouns in my email.

She wants to know when the verdict will be. As do I! And this resignation/ retirement suggests it's imminent. I do wish they'd reveal who sent that stupid email on the Friday though. Heads need to roll at NHS Fife for sure.

I've heard it suggested that the GLP are looking for a test case to take to the ECHR. If Upton loses and was refused leave to appeal, could the case be taken to straight to the ECHR?

I think the most damning thing about her response is that it suggests that she is apparently paid a high salary to do 'knowledge work', but doesn't engage her brain.

She has never thought about what sex is, what it means to have a DSD, and why a woman of her age living in the UK would only be unsure about her sex if she had actively avoided healthcare in the face of some concerning symptoms.

Today's Courier: https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/5374505/carol-potter-nhs-fife-retirement-sandie-peggie-case/?utm_campaign=Courier_Subscriber_Email_Campaign_Oct23%202025-11-18&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Sailthru&utm_term=courier_subscriber_email_ob

Same! Unless the picture that being used is from many years ago she looks to be in her fifties.

No they don't. Dr Upton is a separate named respondent so he can choose to appeal any findings against him separately from NHS Fife and any findings against them, the reverse is also true. The only question I have is would NHS Fife pay for his appeal as they have with his initial defense and if not what idiot would take on his case?

It's so long ago since this started, I can see why NHSFife are responsible for letting men into the women's changing rooms , is Dr U responsible for starting it off?

It's all very well saying how competently the CEO handled the COVID crisis - she may well have done.

We see this sort of thing all the time with politicians - one bad judgement undoes previous good work - e.g. think of Tony Blair and Iraq - the debacle there managed to hide the good work he did in helping bring about the Good Friday agreement, so he goes down as a warmonger, not a peacemaker.

Anyway, back to Sandie Peggie.....

I hope the retirement announcement is a safety net for when big sond eviscerates NHS fife and, well she was going anyway, if she goes now it’s only a few months earlier than she was planning… saves a bit of face?

No. If he was refused leave to appeal to the Employment Appeal Tribunal, his next step would be to appeal that refusal to the Court of Appeal. He can only go to the ECHR when he has run out of domestic options.

I hope this sends a clear message to all the big bosses who are waiting for the EHRC guidance before they actually start to follow the law and give women our single sex spaces.
I'm sure Potter has a good pension but losing a job that pays £145,000 a year for 12 years is a very costly career mistake.

Wrong thread.

I have no doubt that she will have wee jobs lined up courtesy of her network. Non executive director etc. Something advising the SNP govt?
Or may decide not to take her pension and get another job when the headlines die down.
Cynical. Moi?

The sensible response would be to accept findings, wish Upton well but no more, and put in place full policies and protections for women which follow the law. But...this is NHS Fife we're talking about.

Backed with a Scotgov who want to put men in women prisons but not rapists who's not really trans.

Logically the new dude at the top would say new policys bla bla but I bet their hands will be tied.

Unfortunately having personal experience of nhs fife I have no doubt that they'll find a way to fuck things up further. Also they've got a second case with sandie Peggie coming up due to disclosures made to late in this case to add extra respondents

I find it grimly funny that Isla Bumba isn't sure if she's male or female, while Dr Upton is 100% sure he's female.

We don't know what a woman is, but we know a man is a woman if he says so.

The ridiculousness is endless.

The express has a brutal but accurate quote about this route in the screenshot below the article link

https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/scottish-news/nhs-fife-chief-exec-branded-36264222?utm_source=linkCopy&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar

I had the misfortunate to be at a meeting with IB recently. I was prepared to give her the benefit of the doubt given her youth and inexperience, but no - the misplaced over-confidence and lack of insight that was displayed during the court case is exactly how she is.

I think its DUs behaviour in making up the claim about Sandie's conduct in relation to another patient.

😮

I'm astounded she still has a job given her general incompetence 🤯

Maybe once the verdict is released and if/when Fife lose, she will be 'let go'.

That is of course assuming there is anyone working at Fife who has a grasp on reality.

At least Bumbler isn't front line unlike that senior nurse who thought changing your clothes/hair could alter your chromosomes. Can you imagine having to receive care from such an idiot?