NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #54

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence was 29 July 2025. It resumed again over 1 to 2 September for closing submissions.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February 2025. Sandie Peggie returned to give more evidence on 29 July 2025.

Access to view the second part of the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to: [email protected].

The hearing was live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #50 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 51: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5402652-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-51 1 September 2025 to 2 September 2025
Thread 52: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5403218-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-52 2 September 2025 to 4 September 2025
Thread 53: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5404208-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-53 from 3 September

I don't have a lot of faith in the GMC.

They have known this stuff is going on for years. They know the nhs policies, they haven't raised a word.

There's that GP who shouted loud and proud about religious women seeing him thinking he's a woman now.

The GMC dont collect data on sex of registrants either.

They enable these people to coerce and abuse and erode women's boundaries.

I think we need to focus on the fact that it was the actions of Upton that triggered all this.
Poorly drafted law and reliance on misleading training from the likes of Stonewall Have led to a situation where large public sector orgs like NHS Fife are basically littered with career destroying land mines waiting to be stepped on.

If a court finds he committed a civil wrong like harassment he will be ethically obliged to report himself; IMHO.

Ethically, and also by the GMC rules. He has no option to. Failure to notify is an ethics failure in its own right.

How can you even early retire ? Is there no minimum age for retirement in Scotland ? Early retirement in France usually means you are paid a% of your salary to stay at home for up to 2 years until reaching retirement age, but if she's mid fifties surely they won't pay her 10 years of holiday ? Now that would be a pretty big incentive to mess up!

With many pension schemes you can get your pension from age 55 but often there is a penalty for taking the pension early. Some groups of NHS staff can get their pension from 55 with no penalty but I’m not sure if her level would be one of those. She won’t be getting her state pension though until she’s 67

I retired at 53 [and moved to France] because I had enough money to sustain until I could draw down my pension at 55, which is now in an offshore investment and I draw down the minimum needed to comply with the French imcome needed to stay here. Someone who started in the NHS 30 odd years ago, with what would have possibly been a final salary pension would be 'quids in' and in an ideal place to take early retirement.

Only front-line clinical nursing roles have the full pension at 55 option. Sticking to normal age she'd get some pension at 60 and another chunk at 67. Or can take one or both parts early with a reduction. Probably also has a private pension that she can start taking at 55, and savings to live off.

Probably also has a private pension that she can start taking at 55, and savings to live off.

And will no doubt be able to find some non NHS sinecure to tide her over for the next few years.

I wonder at what stage she found out that this was going on? Perhaps when Sandie Peggie went to the ET? One doesn't want a CEO who micro manages, but this is an important issue and she doesn't appear to have been on top of it at all.

I wonder at what stage she found out that this was going on? Perhaps when Sandie Peggie went to the ET? One doesn't want a CEO who micro manages, but this is an important issue and she doesn't appear to have been on top of it at all.

Whilst she was probably unaware of the shit show this would become, would she not have been involved in the decision to defend the action though or would that have been purely a legal decision?

Surely the CEO of any body would have to be aware of / approve any legal action being taken by that body.

Early retirement is basically any retirement before state pension age. Many pensions will pay out from 55 but the sooner you start to draw a pension the low the amount you receive each month will be, and you won't yet have your state pension. DH is already drawing a small pension from a previous job but it's not enough to quit on, instead he pays the amount he gets in pension every month into his current pension fund.

Not necessarily, no. For a large organisation, if the CEO had to approve any legal action that would be a full time job on its own, leaving them unable to do anything else. The CEO will only get involved if the case is significant for the organisation and will, to a significant degree, be dependent on others within the organisation to alert them to such cases. It can be quite hard for the CEO of a large organisation to find out what is going on as there will be multiple layers of middle managers trying to hide anything negative from senior management.

In saying this I am not defending Potter. I don't know at what stage she found out about this case, but once she was aware of it she could, and should, have changed Fife's approach. As the CEO, she has to carry the can for everything that happened on her watch.

This has been rumbling along for years - and in the press for a considerable time. There is a lot NHS Fife could have done differently along the way - like changing its trans policies sooner. There's an analysis of what the board knew when here https://murrayblackburnmackenzie.org/2024/10/15/the-nhs-fife-case-what-do-we-know-about-how-decisions-have-been-made/ and it's obviously been in the press at least a year. No sympathy for Carol here.

She can take her 1995 NHS pension 5 years early with a 25% reduction. She’s been in the NHS for 30 years so will definitely have most of her NHS pension in the scheme with 60 as the normal pension age. The other 3 years will be in the 2015 scheme (or 2022 scheme), she can either take that at normal pension age 67 or actuarily reduced too. Either way, she’s looking at an annual pension of around 50-60k based on her final salary. So not too shabby at all considering she’s massively dropped the ball here.

I think the pension of 50-60k would be before the 25% reduction. Still a lot of people would be happy with 40k coming in and 120k to pay off any remaining mortgage.

Not sure that's strictly true is it? I've been with NHSS for 32 years, paid into my NHS pension since the start, but 60 isn't the normal retirement age - I'd lose a chunk if I took it then.

A relative through marriage worked for a big oil company and could pick up her pension at 50, in spite of giving up work much earlier for family reasons. Mind you, she was earning megabucks.

Hmmm well this is interesting...

The Christian religious education (RE) taught in schools in Northern Ireland is unlawful, the UK Supreme Court has ruled.

The Supreme Court is the UK's highest court.

In a unanimous judgement the Supreme Court allowed an appeal by an unnamed father and daughter from Northern Ireland.

In 2022, the High Court in Belfast ruled that the Christian-based religious education (RE) taught at primary schools in Northern Ireland was unlawful.

However, the Department of Education (DE) subsequently won an appeal against that judgement.

But on Wednesday the Supreme Court unanimously allowed the father and daughter's subsequent appeal and dismissed the Department's cross-appeal.

And

The legal action was taken by a young girl who attended a Belfast primary school and her father. The family took the case anonymously.

In her state-controlled school, the girl had received non-denominational Christian religious education and took part in Christian worship.

However, her parents did not wish her to be taught that Christianity was an absolute truth and in 2019 they wrote to the school voicing concerns that it did not conform with their own beliefs.

The family asked if inspection mechanisms were in place to ensure that pupils were receiving a balanced religious education.

The school replied that its religious education was “Bible-based” and followed the core syllabus for education.

The family argued that their rights - which requires the State providing education to “respect the right of parents to ensure such education is in conformity with their own religious and philosophical convictions" - had been contravened.

And

The family’s solicitor, Darragh Mackin from Phoenix Law, described the Supreme Court’s unanimous ruling as a “watershed moment” for education rights in Northern Ireland.

“The Supreme Court has confirmed that all children are entitled to an education that respects their freedom of thought, conscience, and religion,” he said.

Mr Mackin said the judgement means that schools cannot place children in the “impossible position of being singled out or stigmatised” because they do not share the religious worldview in the school curriculum.

Watch this space.

The NHS pension is a good scheme, but not that generous!

From memory, the 1995 scheme was planned to pay out 50% of salary after 40 years/normal retirement of 60. I think Sandie was part time, so her normal pension would be less than full time and would then be reduced if she took it early.

@CarefulN0w We were talking about the CEO's pension, not Sandie's. However although Sandie was part time she worked long shifts and at weekends. As a clinical nurse she could possibly go early without the same level of reduction.

Reckon Carol is 56 or thereabouts. She will be able to get her 1995 NHS Scheme pension from 60, she'll be able to get that early but it will come at a a penalty. But that was shut a few years ago and the 20152022 scheme is tied to the pension age, so she won't get that until 67.

Ah sorry, my bad! I was thinking that looked like a good pension for a nurse.

Annoyingly, I’m very certain that CP will get a v generous pension. It’s reasonably common for v senior managers to negotiate to be paid their full pension, even if they go early.

Meanwhile, presumably a shedload of managers are fleeing NHS England before the axe falls. Perhaps some of them are fond of Tunnocks

Before 1995, age 60 was certainly the age you could take a full pension, but the pension rules have been changed multiple times since.