NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #54

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence was 29 July 2025. It resumed again over 1 to 2 September for closing submissions.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February 2025. Sandie Peggie returned to give more evidence on 29 July 2025.

Access to view the second part of the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to: [email protected].

The hearing was live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #50 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 51: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5402652-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-51 1 September 2025 to 2 September 2025
Thread 52: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5403218-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-52 2 September 2025 to 4 September 2025
Thread 53: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5404208-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-53 from 3 September

So either of these cases of men in prison could have been what SP was referring to not Isla Bryson as has been suggested by the respondents.

I've found the article I was looking for - it's unbelievable that the authorities nearly gave into this man.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/court-put-lockdown-dangerous-dirty-11081394

They flew a flag for him iirc.

I suspect he's the one I read about getting his jollies by insisting on being strip searched by female prison staff. I think there were dirty protests too.

According to the article he had more than one dirty protest. It is absolutely astonishing that anyone in their right mind would even consider putting such a violent man in a woman's prison. That this was on the table is unbelievably stupid.

She's referring to articles 9 amd 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights. Definitely not specific to barristers.

Article 9 – Freedom of thought, conscience and religion
1 Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief, in worship, teaching, practice and observance.
2 Freedom to manifest one's religion or beliefs shall be subject only to such limitations as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society in the interests of public safety, for the protection of public order, health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others.

Article 10 – Freedom of expression
1 Everyone has the right to freedom of expression. This right shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without interference by public authority and regardless of frontiers. This article shall not prevent States from requiring the licensing of broadcasting, television or cinema enterprises.
2 The exercise of these freedoms, since it carries with it duties and responsibilities, may be subject to such formalities, conditions, restrictions or penalties as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society, in the interests of national security, territorial integrity or public safety, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, for the protection of the reputation or rights of others, for preventing the disclosure of information received in confidence, or for maintaining the authority and impartiality of the judiciary.

Naomi talking about using the correct gender led me on to think about the so-called crime of deadnaming, so I pootled off and did some research and find
https://www.ukdeedpolloffice.org/deadnaming-in-the-uk/ where it says

Is it illegal to deadname someone in the UK?
Yes. In the UK, it is illegal to discriminate in the workplace against employees because they belong to a protected class. This includes discrimination on the basis of a gender reassignment, the employee's sex, and/or their sexual orientation.
To clarify, the 2010 Equality Act considers 'harassment' to be a form of discrimination, and deadnaming could fall under the category.
The 2010 Equality Act defines 'harassment' as "unwanted behaviour linked to a protected characteristic that violates someone's dignity or creates an offensive environment for them".
Remember, deadnaming isn't only illegal, but it is also wrong and unethical when done intentionally due to the psychological and mental harm that it leads to.

Does that mean that it's only illegal if you do it in a workplace? It's not being made very clear, is it?

That's what I suspected. Celebratory Tunnocks time. Maybe a tea cake AND a wafer cos I've found out about deadnaming too today.

This is not a government agency, and I doubt this site is wholly impartial.

gosh, so every time I refer to my old pal Mary Kelly as Mary Murphy, the name she had at school before she married Bill Kelly, I'm violating her dignity and causing her psychological and mental harm, and should be hauled off, prosecuted, and punished for my illegal, offensive, wrong, and unethical violation of her dignity.

good to know

names ever so slightly changed, I don't want to give my old pal Mary ideas, people can be so litigious these days

I think the Deed office is just putting their interpretation on it, . The EA doesn't flat out say 'deadnaming' is illegal. If Bob leaves on Friday, returns on Monday as Bab, they'll be a transition where people make honest mistakes or have to clarify to others what's happened to Bob. Bob Bab could be an arse, make a fuss, possibly get people disciplined or even sacked, but I don't think it would pass any reasonable test in a competent court. Although IANAL and weirder shit has happened. It's arguable that using Bab's new name but saying it all sarky like would fail the EA test.

The Deed office's advice is all over the place in the last sentence quoted

Remember, deadnaming isn't only illegal, but it is also wrong and unethical when done intentionally due to the psychological and mental harm that it leads to.

So, it's illegal but not wrong or unethical unless it's done intentionally. This is activist language.

That's just a private company, as explained on reddit, here: www.reddit.com/r/transgenderUK/comments/1hi4vvb/psa_uk_deed_poll_office_is_a_nongovernmental/

Exactly. I'm avoiding housework by looking at what people say is illegal and what actually is illegal, with a quick diversion into differences between policy and law. ATM anyone who refers to 'our policy' has me checking the law very quickly. So far, their policy doesn't tend to be backed up by law but the 'authority' wants people to think it is.

He always makes me think of the James Norton villain in Happy Valley. Same terrifying vibes. 😬

I mean, I feel this is common sense if you know a bit about deed polls. It doesn’t cost you anything to change your name - you can do it with a free template on the gov.uk website.

But you linked to a private company, charging people for it. That’s unscrupulous in itself. They’re also trying to seem legitimate, by masquerading as some official “UK Office” / government agency. That’s also unscrupulous. So it’s not surprising that they’re supportive of transgender people and deadnaming, given that there’s probably a decent amount of transgender people using their services. They’re merely trying to make more money. So to me it fits their shady business model, to misadvise people about the law. They’re just advertising their services in the same breath.

Remember, deadnaming isn't only illegal...

It's not EVEN illegal.

Plus it’s telling that their solution to being the victim of illegal acts is to spend £20 on their deed poll (that is free via gov.uk.)

Normally when you’re giving advice to victims of crime the advice is “contact the police” or “speak to a solicitor” - not “buy my product”

This made me LOL, from the front page of that deadnaming site:

"UK Deed Poll Office made the process of changing my name fast, easy, and stress-free!"

Madison Bryne (Formerly Jane Bryne)

Right then, I am going to get my username changed to @PointlessDeedPoleRegistration and anyone who refers to me as @NebulousSupportPostcard is going down for causing me (both!) psychological and mental harm.

You have been warned.

The deadnaming bastards!!!

Will you be indicating that you were formerly NebulousSupportPostcard in your posts?

Indeed it is not a Government department or agency.

Its URL is https://www.ukdeedpolloffice.org and it does not end in gov.uk

It's one of those shyster sites that charges people for a service they have no need to pay for.

Aren't .org sites supposed to be for nonprofits, like charities?

Very often, but not always.

There is a disclaimer on the site:
"The UK Deed Poll Office is not a government agency. Our function is purely as a document provider for the self-declaration of an unenrolled deed poll. We are here to assist in your name change journey, as we have done for over 100,000 UK residents."

I am trying to remember how I changed my name for all purposes without recourse to a deed poll. I think it started with getting "the holder is also known as" on my passport, because I wrote under a name other than my married name (and not my father's surname either because that was long and unwieldy). From there to the bank was a short step; they too accepted that I could be both once I started to get cheques made out to both of me, though for a bit they were iffy about both of me having the same account. The electoral register I seem to remember required a gas bill in my name for my address, which was easy enough since the gas board asked no questions at all so long as the bill got paid. The NHS was a doddle; I just told them when I moved house and went to a new GP.

I'm sure it is more complicated now, but taking it slowly over the course of a few years seems to have worked ok back at the end of last century. No questions were asked about that when I remarried using my new name, anyway. Whether I knew my prospective husband's birthday and what he did for a living, yes; my name, no.