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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Richard Dawkin's new book warns against denial of scientific truth by ‘astonishingly vicious’ trans activists and other threats on science

363 replies

IwantToRetire · 25/09/2025 18:02

In The War on Science, Dawkins joins several scientists and philosophers contending that academic freedom and truth in universities was being stifled by diversity, equity and inclusion policies that promoted falsehoods under the banner of social justice.

“I draw the line at the belligerent slogan ‘trans women are women’ because it is scientifically false,” he said. “When taken literally, it can infringe the rights of other people, especially women.

“It logically entails the right to enter women’s sporting events, women’s changing rooms, women’s prisons and so on.

“So powerful has this postmodern counter-factualism become, that newspapers refer to ‘her penis’ as a matter of unremarked routine.”

Full article at https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/09/25/richard-dawkins-trans-women-slogan-scientifically-false/ and at https://archive.is/zAFxS

Richard Dawkin's new book warns against denial of scientific truth by ‘astonishingly vicious’ trans activists and other threats on science
OP posts:
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8
NotBadConsidering · 26/09/2025 11:44

Abominableday · 26/09/2025 11:42

Hmm, she was a guest on Louis Theroux' podcast in 2024.

Did she mention Howse during it? I think that’s why he thinks she has dementia, she’s forgotten who he is #sadtimes

Greyskybluesky · 26/09/2025 11:46

😂

Helleofabore · 26/09/2025 11:47

Howseitgoin · 26/09/2025 11:36

In terms of public policy, all that's necessary is determining whether there's potential for harm from male bodied people. So whether a trans person can prove their behavioural associations to women as a group is irrelevant.

Greer was widely reported to be admitted to aged care in 2022. (You can google it.) IE she was unable to care for herself which was widely rumoured to be caused dementia. Her complete disappearance from public life & that she is 87 years old is also seen as confirming factor.

Not sure why people consider elderly people who suffer cognitive decline offensive but there you go.

She had mobility issues after a fall. She felt she could no longer live independently.

I would hardly think that her coming out of covid lockdowns and doing several international interviews over the past few years since is her 'complete disappearance from public life'.

NotAtMyAge · 26/09/2025 11:48

Howseitgoin · 26/09/2025 07:01

"The only thing that matters for the definition of sex is reproduction"

Depends on the context though. And in the context of the legitimacy of trans & intersex people which is what Dawkins is pontificating on, the variations that the reproductive system is capable of producing is relevant to this discussion.

IE the context here isn't about the normal outcomes rather the abnormal ones & how they are categorised in society.

Trans people and those with differences of sexual development are still either biologically male or female, since DSD's are sex-specific. Gender identity, if you believe in it, is entirely in the mind, whereas reproductive sex is all about the body.

JustSpeculation · 26/09/2025 11:48

Igneococcus · 26/09/2025 07:22

It's basically Lewontin's argument about race transferred to sex.

Thank you for this. I had been assuming that the "sex is bimodal" assertion was based in simple ignorance of how statistics work. But it now becomes much clearer why the error was made if you see it as as an attempt to apply Lewontin to sex. Race is not observable as a biological fact outside secondary characteristics (secondary in that they are not themselves race, but things like skin colour). It can only be described biologically through statistics. Sex, however, is observable as a clear, explainable reproductive strategy in itself, and independently of secondary characteristics.

Have I got that right? Does it make sense?

lcakethereforeIam · 26/09/2025 11:49

Even a senile Germaine Greer would talk more sense than any gender addled tra.

Wasn't there something about a correlation between wrong sex hormones and dementia (amongst the plethora of other health problems caused by gender affirming 'care')?

sanluca · 26/09/2025 11:49

Howseitgoin · 26/09/2025 11:16

According to a senile Greer? Yes.

Wow you really do your best to smear anyone who has arguments you don't like, don't you?

Helleofabore · 26/09/2025 11:50

Abominableday · 26/09/2025 11:42

Hmm, she was a guest on Louis Theroux' podcast in 2024.

She also interviewed on the ABC with David Wenham.

But apparently... she has completely disappeared. Strange that a woman in her 80s would abide by lock down rules and not be giving interviews. I notice she doesn't really seem the type to give 'zoom' interviews.

She has also been rather vocal about elder care for female people for the past 10 years. Maybe a man doesn't read articles about elder care for female people... I can image why.

Howseitgoin · 26/09/2025 11:53

Abominableday · 26/09/2025 11:42

Hmm, she was a guest on Louis Theroux' podcast in 2024.

Elderly people with cognitive issues aren't always completely incoherent 24/7. The fact is she was admitted to aged care in 2022 so probably couldn't take care of herself.

sanluca · 26/09/2025 11:55

Btw, can anyone point me towards someone who produces both sperm as well as ova? As I have always learned that is scientifically impossible due to genetics. Even for someone who is xy and develops in the female pathway, their ovaries are streaks and don't function.

As that very long article quoted above said that and it strikes me as false (and thereby destroys the 'sex is bimodal' thing

Howseitgoin · 26/09/2025 11:55

sanluca · 26/09/2025 11:49

Wow you really do your best to smear anyone who has arguments you don't like, don't you?

Greer is quoted as saying Caitlyn Jenner transitioned only because she was jealous of the Kardashian sisters limelight so if anyone enjoyed a good smear its GG.

Abominableday · 26/09/2025 11:59

Howseitgoin · 26/09/2025 11:53

Elderly people with cognitive issues aren't always completely incoherent 24/7. The fact is she was admitted to aged care in 2022 so probably couldn't take care of herself.

Stop pretending that is what you said about her.

MarieDeGournay · 26/09/2025 12:00

Howseitgoin · 26/09/2025 11:36

In terms of public policy, all that's necessary is determining whether there's potential for harm from male bodied people. So whether a trans person can prove their behavioural associations to women as a group is irrelevant.

Greer was widely reported to be admitted to aged care in 2022. (You can google it.) IE she was unable to care for herself which was widely rumoured to be caused dementia. Her complete disappearance from public life & that she is 87 years old is also seen as confirming factor.

Not sure why people consider elderly people who suffer cognitive decline offensive but there you go.

Thank you for your reply Howseitgo.
In terms of public policy, all that's necessary is determining whether there's potential for harm from male bodied people.
Well that has been well and truly proved, statistics on violent crime against women by male bodied people, ones who ID as women and ones who do not,
is clear proof of that.

So you have provided a rationale for female bodied people to have laws and policies and regulations to ensure their safety from the potential harm you refer to from 'male bodied people'.

That is the rationale for public policy that requires certain facilities should be single-sex, for instance rape crisis centres, or that equal representation on public boards should be defined by biological sex, or as you put it how people are 'bodied'.

So far, you and the UK Supreme Court are in total agreementSmile

Not sure why people consider elderly people who suffer cognitive decline offensive but there you go.
Nobody said that 'elderly people who suffer cognitive decline' are 'offensive', in fact later today I am going to sit with a very dear family friend who has dementia, who no longer recognises me, but who is always delighted to see me.
Where are you getting 'offensive' from anything anybody has said about dementia?

And you are the one who dismissed Greer's opinions on the basis that
'She was getting on at that stage & admitted to a nursing home for dementia not long after.'
and in another post
'According to a senile Greer? Yes.'

Now that's offensive.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 26/09/2025 12:01

Howseitgoin · 26/09/2025 11:10

Yup, Greer doesn't believe trans women are the same as CIS women in terms of "life experience" but not all women's life experiences are the same & some trans women experiences are similar to CIS women so it's not exactly one of her most rigorous analyses. She was getting on at that stage & admitted to a nursing home for dementia not long after.

Germaine Greer was speaking about the lie that men are women when they say they are way back in 1989.

She was living in her Essex house and wonderful garden until 2018. I believe she returned to Australia and has gone into some sort of supported living? Not surpising given her age.

Seeing a rabid transactivist attempting to slur a legendary feminist writer is no surprise. This who post with zero integrity and credibility can only resort to smears and slurs - they've nothing else to offer.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4430375-germaine-greer-in-1989-sex-change-is-a-lie

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 26/09/2025 12:02

Howseitgoin · 26/09/2025 11:53

Elderly people with cognitive issues aren't always completely incoherent 24/7. The fact is she was admitted to aged care in 2022 so probably couldn't take care of herself.

your snide, undermining little insinuations are truly repellent

Kucinghitam · 26/09/2025 12:02

Some prolific posters are here as effulgent Righteous Warriors for The Greater Goodness of Bundled Good Things. Any amount of obfuscatory, twisting, misrepresenting, smearing, mendacious, copied-and-pasted word salad is justifiable because it is Pious Fraud in aid of said Greater Goodness. Also, it means that said posters gets to polish their "haloes" possibly while typing one-handed.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 26/09/2025 12:03

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 26/09/2025 12:02

your snide, undermining little insinuations are truly repellent

Ageism, sexism, misogyny, homophobia - quite the collection of repellent behaviours isn't it?

Kucinghitam · 26/09/2025 12:04

MrsOvertonsWindow · 26/09/2025 12:03

Ageism, sexism, misogyny, homophobia - quite the collection of repellent behaviours isn't it?

These are the poster people for The Right Side Of History.

Helleofabore · 26/09/2025 12:05

Howseitgoin · 26/09/2025 11:53

Elderly people with cognitive issues aren't always completely incoherent 24/7. The fact is she was admitted to aged care in 2022 so probably couldn't take care of herself.

Again, she had had a fall and felt she couldn't live independently.

Is she still in a care home, I read somewhere she was living with her brother? Does it even fucking matter.

Have you got proof that she has a dementia diagnosis?

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 26/09/2025 12:05

I’m not sure what you think this proves other than Greer’s prescience and bravery

Addressing claims that she had been hurtful towards transgender women, Greer added: “People are being hurtful to me all the time. Try being an old woman. For goodness sake, people get hurt all the time. I’m not about to walk on eggshells.”

admirably brief and to the point I’d say

LadyBracknellsHandbagg · 26/09/2025 12:06

Howseitgoin · 26/09/2025 11:53

Elderly people with cognitive issues aren't always completely incoherent 24/7. The fact is she was admitted to aged care in 2022 so probably couldn't take care of herself.

Whereas TRA’s ARE completely incoherent 24/7.

LadyBracknellsHandbagg · 26/09/2025 12:07

Helleofabore · 26/09/2025 12:05

Again, she had had a fall and felt she couldn't live independently.

Is she still in a care home, I read somewhere she was living with her brother? Does it even fucking matter.

Have you got proof that she has a dementia diagnosis?

Of course he doesn’t, he has proof of nothing except his own nastiness.

CassOle · 26/09/2025 12:07

sanluca · 26/09/2025 11:49

Wow you really do your best to smear anyone who has arguments you don't like, don't you?

It's just old-fashioned ad hominem. Best ignored.

Abominableday · 26/09/2025 12:08

Helleofabore · 26/09/2025 11:50

She also interviewed on the ABC with David Wenham.

But apparently... she has completely disappeared. Strange that a woman in her 80s would abide by lock down rules and not be giving interviews. I notice she doesn't really seem the type to give 'zoom' interviews.

She has also been rather vocal about elder care for female people for the past 10 years. Maybe a man doesn't read articles about elder care for female people... I can image why.

Thanks for that - I can't get onto the full show but I did find this clip on YouTube

- YouTube

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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vjAkKTZYDPI&pp=ygUlZGF2aWQgd2VuaGFtIGludGVydmlldyBnZXJtYWluZSBncmVlcg%3D%3D