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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Richard Dawkin's new book warns against denial of scientific truth by ‘astonishingly vicious’ trans activists and other threats on science

363 replies

IwantToRetire · 25/09/2025 18:02

In The War on Science, Dawkins joins several scientists and philosophers contending that academic freedom and truth in universities was being stifled by diversity, equity and inclusion policies that promoted falsehoods under the banner of social justice.

“I draw the line at the belligerent slogan ‘trans women are women’ because it is scientifically false,” he said. “When taken literally, it can infringe the rights of other people, especially women.

“It logically entails the right to enter women’s sporting events, women’s changing rooms, women’s prisons and so on.

“So powerful has this postmodern counter-factualism become, that newspapers refer to ‘her penis’ as a matter of unremarked routine.”

Full article at https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/09/25/richard-dawkins-trans-women-slogan-scientifically-false/ and at https://archive.is/zAFxS

Richard Dawkin's new book warns against denial of scientific truth by ‘astonishingly vicious’ trans activists and other threats on science
OP posts:
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Helleofabore · 26/09/2025 12:11

Howseitgoin · 26/09/2025 10:54

"Women's liberation", she wrote in The Whole Woman (1999), "did not see the female's potential in terms of the male's actual." She argues instead that liberation is about asserting difference and "insisting on it as a condition of self-definition and self-determination". It is a struggle for the freedom of women to "define their own values, order their own priorities and decide their own fate".[b]

Just a reminder. Although, I am sure most people posting on this board remember reading this.

Even in 1996, Germaine was very clear that no male people should be accessing female single sex provisions.

http://archive.today/VrUtd

"In 1996, she was invited to take up a fellowship at Newnham, one of Cambridge's three all-women colleges. Germaine Greer, who was then a fellow of the college, subsequently argued that since Padman was legally a man, her appointment contravened college statutes."

Howseitgoin · 26/09/2025 12:12

MarieDeGournay · 26/09/2025 12:00

Thank you for your reply Howseitgo.
In terms of public policy, all that's necessary is determining whether there's potential for harm from male bodied people.
Well that has been well and truly proved, statistics on violent crime against women by male bodied people, ones who ID as women and ones who do not,
is clear proof of that.

So you have provided a rationale for female bodied people to have laws and policies and regulations to ensure their safety from the potential harm you refer to from 'male bodied people'.

That is the rationale for public policy that requires certain facilities should be single-sex, for instance rape crisis centres, or that equal representation on public boards should be defined by biological sex, or as you put it how people are 'bodied'.

So far, you and the UK Supreme Court are in total agreementSmile

Not sure why people consider elderly people who suffer cognitive decline offensive but there you go.
Nobody said that 'elderly people who suffer cognitive decline' are 'offensive', in fact later today I am going to sit with a very dear family friend who has dementia, who no longer recognises me, but who is always delighted to see me.
Where are you getting 'offensive' from anything anybody has said about dementia?

And you are the one who dismissed Greer's opinions on the basis that
'She was getting on at that stage & admitted to a nursing home for dementia not long after.'
and in another post
'According to a senile Greer? Yes.'

Now that's offensive.

Edited

And you are the one who dismissed Greer's opinions on the basis that
'She was getting on at that stage & admitted to a nursing home for dementia not long after.'
and in another post
'According to a senile Greer? Yes.'
Now that's offensive.

As offensive as calling trans people deluded? I guess she might understand how they feel now.

eatfigs · 26/09/2025 12:13

Howseitgoin · 25/09/2025 22:20

Dawkins is a world class scientist so he knows only too well no one is suggesting reproductive categories don't exist rather ‘Sex’ is often semantically flattened into a binary model, for which individuals are classified as either ‘female’ or ‘male.’ A more expansive definition of sex is bimodal—with most individuals falling within one of two peaks of a trait distribution. However, even a bimodal model is an oversimplification, since ‘sex’ comprises multiple traits, with variable distributions. Individuals may possess different combinations of chromosome type, gamete size, hormone level, morphology, and social roles, which do not always align in female- and male-specific ways or persist across an organism’s lifespan. Reliance on strict binary categories of sex fails to accurately capture the diverse and nuanced nature of sex.

In other words, the guy knows better but is looking for pay back after the left hung him out to dry.

Your redefinition of sex doesn't hold across all sexually reproducing species. For example, not all species have a chromosomal sex-determination system.

Consider: when a biologist discovers a new species where an initial analysis shows it reproduces sexually and has the female and male halves of the reproductive system embodied in distinct sets of individuals (that is, gonochorism) - how does she then figure out which are the females and which are the males?

JanesLittleGirl · 26/09/2025 12:13

Howseitgoin · 26/09/2025 11:16

According to a senile Greer? Yes.

Is this an example of the empathy that you claim to have?

Helleofabore · 26/09/2025 12:15

MrsOvertonsWindow · 26/09/2025 12:01

Germaine Greer was speaking about the lie that men are women when they say they are way back in 1989.

She was living in her Essex house and wonderful garden until 2018. I believe she returned to Australia and has gone into some sort of supported living? Not surpising given her age.

Seeing a rabid transactivist attempting to slur a legendary feminist writer is no surprise. This who post with zero integrity and credibility can only resort to smears and slurs - they've nothing else to offer.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4430375-germaine-greer-in-1989-sex-change-is-a-lie

Remember up until she as back here, she had been living around Springbook National Park, a rainforest in Queensland, that she wrote a book about and was doing plenty of interviews about in 2014 and thereabouts.

Greyskybluesky · 26/09/2025 12:15

I'm so glad you posted this.

I just love the no-nonsense, cut-to-the-chase, common sense way she speaks.

It's an icy cold breath of fresh air that instantly turns word salad mouldy.

Abominableday · 26/09/2025 12:16

Howseitgoin · 26/09/2025 12:12

And you are the one who dismissed Greer's opinions on the basis that
'She was getting on at that stage & admitted to a nursing home for dementia not long after.'
and in another post
'According to a senile Greer? Yes.'
Now that's offensive.

As offensive as calling trans people deluded? I guess she might understand how they feel now.

Deluded means believing something that is not true. So, you are deluded about Greer's medical status, and trans people are deluded if they genuinely believe they can change sex.

NotBadConsidering · 26/09/2025 12:17

Caitlyn Jenner admitted he came out as trans after getting caught on camera stealing his teenage daughters’ underwear.

Howseitgoin · 26/09/2025 12:17

JanesLittleGirl · 26/09/2025 12:13

Is this an example of the empathy that you claim to have?

Are you suggesting cruelty is unhelpful now? Or this only applies when convenient? According to Greer offence is irrelevant.

Helleofabore · 26/09/2025 12:18

Gosh.... look at this....

In 2022, Germaine Greer had a fall and was hospitalised. She couldn't appear in person at a Canberra Writer's event. An event that she would not have been invited to speak at if she was cognitively impaired. And apparently, she had fucking disappeared from public life too....

https://whisperinggums.com/tag/germaine-greer/

Any sign of that proof of a dementia diagnosis?

Should I do Howsa's usual and say "Still waiting.... " with emojis and all. That is the usual tactic, isn't it? The one that crossed over to bullying after so many repeats?

Fucking hell. The hate for women by some people really becomes clearer and clearer each day. And very multi-faceted.

Germaine Greer – Whispering Gums

Posts about Germaine Greer written by Whispering Gums

https://whisperinggums.com/tag/germaine-greer/

NotAtMyAge · 26/09/2025 12:21

Howseitgoin · 26/09/2025 10:21

Trans acceptance is a relative new social phenomena so we are still in the process of 'ironing out' wrinkles so I don't think its accurate to say there hasn't been any progress.

Progress which is rapidly going into reverse if YouGov opinion polls on this subject over the past few years are anything to go by. Increasingly arrogant overreach by transactivists has shifted public acceptance very markedly in a negative direction and there's no indication the downward slide will be easily reversed or even stopped.

Helleofabore · 26/09/2025 12:21

Greyskybluesky · 26/09/2025 12:15

I'm so glad you posted this.

I just love the no-nonsense, cut-to-the-chase, common sense way she speaks.

It's an icy cold breath of fresh air that instantly turns word salad mouldy.

Me too.

It is clearly her opinion and one that may or man not be accurate, or may be in part.

It certainly gives a refreshing perspective.

eatfigs · 26/09/2025 12:22

She's in a care home for the elderly but was giving interviews up to a couple of years ago. And anyway it doesn't matter that she's old. It's simply a fact and has no bearing on her life's work. Calling her "senile Greer" is an irrelevant swipe.

Howseitgoin · 26/09/2025 12:23

Helleofabore · 26/09/2025 12:18

Gosh.... look at this....

In 2022, Germaine Greer had a fall and was hospitalised. She couldn't appear in person at a Canberra Writer's event. An event that she would not have been invited to speak at if she was cognitively impaired. And apparently, she had fucking disappeared from public life too....

https://whisperinggums.com/tag/germaine-greer/

Any sign of that proof of a dementia diagnosis?

Should I do Howsa's usual and say "Still waiting.... " with emojis and all. That is the usual tactic, isn't it? The one that crossed over to bullying after so many repeats?

Fucking hell. The hate for women by some people really becomes clearer and clearer each day. And very multi-faceted.

Edited

What people say they are admitted to care for publicly & actually are aren't always the same. As I said it was widely rumoured to be dementia & given she was prone to spouting out of character nonsense like Jenner transitioned because she was jealous doesn't sound like her normal self.

Merrymouse · 26/09/2025 12:23

Neither the state of Germaine Greer's health nor her manners has any bearing on whether sex is binary.

Greyskybluesky · 26/09/2025 12:24

Howseitgoin · 26/09/2025 12:23

What people say they are admitted to care for publicly & actually are aren't always the same. As I said it was widely rumoured to be dementia & given she was prone to spouting out of character nonsense like Jenner transitioned because she was jealous doesn't sound like her normal self.

There's that "widely rumoured" again...

Howseitgoin · 26/09/2025 12:24

NotBadConsidering · 26/09/2025 12:17

Caitlyn Jenner admitted he came out as trans after getting caught on camera stealing his teenage daughters’ underwear.

Ive seen the Netflix show & that's false.

Helleofabore · 26/09/2025 12:24

So, let's see...

A poster claims that Dawkins expertise about evolutionary biology and how that impacts in life should be discounted because Dawkins may have expressed an opinion that may or may not be based on accurate insight.

That poster makes false claims and twists Germaine Greer's words and makes other false claims about her. And yet believes that they are righteous and people should consider their views.

Anyone else think this is a hypocritical position to hold?

Howseitgoin · 26/09/2025 12:26

Merrymouse · 26/09/2025 12:23

Neither the state of Germaine Greer's health nor her manners has any bearing on whether sex is binary.

Of course. The obsessive focus is a distraction technique to stop talking about bi modal sex.

Helleofabore · 26/09/2025 12:27

Howseitgoin · 26/09/2025 12:23

What people say they are admitted to care for publicly & actually are aren't always the same. As I said it was widely rumoured to be dementia & given she was prone to spouting out of character nonsense like Jenner transitioned because she was jealous doesn't sound like her normal self.

Ahh.. so it is RUMOURED!

Based on an opinion she gave about a man who has claimed to be a woman. Yet, she has a long history of stating that male people cannot be female people and should not be accessing female single sex provisions.

And I also notice your use of 'spouting'.

The hate for women is showing again .....

MrsOvertonsWindow · 26/09/2025 12:28

Helleofabore · 26/09/2025 12:24

So, let's see...

A poster claims that Dawkins expertise about evolutionary biology and how that impacts in life should be discounted because Dawkins may have expressed an opinion that may or may not be based on accurate insight.

That poster makes false claims and twists Germaine Greer's words and makes other false claims about her. And yet believes that they are righteous and people should consider their views.

Anyone else think this is a hypocritical position to hold?

In that fascinating piece you linked where she appeared at the Canberra Writers Festival in 2022 she was really on form. She could be talking about the emotionally incontinent transactivist currently drowning this thread with all manner of lies, obfuscations and misogynistic nonsense when she said:

"Mistrust me if I present myself as having them [the answers, she meant]".

HouseOfGoldandBones · 26/09/2025 12:29

Howseitgoin · 25/09/2025 22:08

I'm saying that anti trans positions are politically expedient/'cleansing'. IE I'm 'questioning' his motives.

And I'm also questioning the motives of those that white wash rape apologists & bigots for their own political expediency.

You're questioning what motivation an evolutionary biologist would have for believing in scientific reality?

Helleofabore · 26/09/2025 12:29

Howseitgoin · 26/09/2025 12:26

Of course. The obsessive focus is a distraction technique to stop talking about bi modal sex.

It was a topic you, personally, introduced today at 10:54.

Howseitgoin · 26/09/2025 12:29

eatfigs · 26/09/2025 12:13

Your redefinition of sex doesn't hold across all sexually reproducing species. For example, not all species have a chromosomal sex-determination system.

Consider: when a biologist discovers a new species where an initial analysis shows it reproduces sexually and has the female and male halves of the reproductive system embodied in distinct sets of individuals (that is, gonochorism) - how does she then figure out which are the females and which are the males?

Its not a redefinition. Its fact that within species there's potential for biological variation. That this isn't in the service of reproduction is irrelevant.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 26/09/2025 12:29

Howseitgoin · 26/09/2025 12:24

Ive seen the Netflix show & that's false.

😂😂😂

Such intellectual insight