Trans row threatens to overshadow Lib Dem conference

[IwantToRetire]

Sir Ed Davey faces activist revolt over party rules that allow biological men to take women’s posts

The current rules allow those who “self-identify as women” to stand for party posts set aside for women, which the activists say dilutes the chance that biological women can reach the top of the party.

The vote will be put before conference on Saturday, but it is understood that trans rights activists will try to get it cancelled to avoid embarrassment. This is despite a YouGov poll showing that three-quarters of Lib Dem members do not support the party’s stance on allowing gender self-ID.

Full article at https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/17/trans-row-threatens-to-overshadow-lib-dem-conference/

Also at https://archive.is/hykSr

I keep saying this as it's very true of the trans issues in a nutshell
If you acknowledge a problem, you have to do something about it if you are in a position of authority. Otherwise you admit you are failing to do your job properly.
This is why scandals and whistleblowers have such a terrible time because there's too many people covering their own arse .
This is why you won't see people saying 'oh yes we got this wrong, yes there is a massive problem with harms from promoting this in schools and medicalising children or enabling abusers.
Because if they admit this they open themselves up to massive liabilities.
Farage isn't in the same position. He doesn't have these liability issues.

Yes, I was far more hopeful when the Supreme Court made it clear that we could drop all of the "what is a woman anyway?" trans confusion and move on, but as has been pointed out no party has confronted it. I do feel it needs to be addressed and put upfront for clarity as Davey must realise that women need to know he isn't going to pull a Starmer and court their vote then ignore them in every area. It's great having them on our screens but if they take £ from PIP that's mostly women, they're not sorting out the baby 800 deaths pa in maternity wards, I've yet to see a Woman's Health Hub, we're likely to get screwed more on tax and we still haven't got absent fathers to foot their kids' bills, yet no mention by Phillipson of getting thousands of women out of UC and potentially back to work by doing so (my opinion on this is to use powers to take passport, repossess cars after a maximum of 6 months of the father refusing to pay or supply his full income). The trans is an added complication that muddies the waters on this as none of these issues actually affect them and by ignoring this the LD are really signing an invisible contract that they don't see or will be willing to ignore these real issues.

Joe Biden did the same. He appointed a man to a prominent post and thereby removed another opportunity for a woman.

I meant 'cut your cloth' in terms of either raising taxes or making budget cuts or increasing borrowing.

Investment has to be funded somehow, and Labour have boxed themselves in, with restrictions on how much they are prepared to tax or borrow.

However, it's not clear that any other party can square the circle either.

We know massive savings can be made by investment in the right area.

It is insane to not recognise this and instead handicap the country with ridiculous fiscal restrictions.

Running a country by a simplistic spreadsheet doesn't work.

That's pretty difficult with more and more made in China.

Politicians love sending manufacturing to China - it's great for our UK carbon emission headlines

@RedToothBrush is spot on that Farage notices, names and discusses issues thay other politicians avoid, and that he deals in disaffection. I hadn't thought of it in those terms but that describes it precisely.

And whether it's simplistic or not, it's very easy to say, yes, your GP is overbooked and your mum can't get an appointment till Monday week, and you can't get your kid into the local primary, because that massive housing estate (350 homes) has been bolted onto your small market town, following the 270 houses that went up three years ago - and not forgetting the new one going up as we speak... And housebuilding is going on like this because the population is increasing and that is due to immigration.

A lot of people live in places defined by ONS as 'rural' precisely because they like the peace and quiet. They are royally fucked off by the suburbanisation of the countryside, take it from me.

Couple that with the contempt of the political class for a large part of the electorate, and I'll honestly be amazed if they don't vote for Nigel.

Our problem locally ISN'T that there's not enough school places. They are CLOSING schools here as there aren't enough children...

They aren't building around here, we aren't getting immigrants, but its harder to get a doctors appointment. Cos the population is getting older and they have more medical needs.

We can't get appointments because we live in the wrong area and then we get shunted from service to service because no fucker wants to take responsibility for you because its out of the wrong budget. Or because you aren't the 'perfect' patient. These are administrative decisions and nothing to do with actual service provision.

Public transport is something that happens on other planets (we are north of London and not in a city centre).

There are lots of places like this. They aren't even part of this discussion cos we are too busy focusing on the immigration argument because Farage went 'loooooookkk squirreelll' and set the narrative.

Why aren't people questioning that narrative and where it DOESN'T apply and asking why it DOESN'T apply, because if you do this it starts to make the narrative fall apart because its demonstratably inaccurate.

I always say that if you have a shit fake narrative, turn it upset down and questions from a different point of view to work out if the narrative holds up. Fake narratives collaspe very quickly when examined from an alternative angle. Exploring from an alternative angle also means you don't take on people who are entrenched head on - you approach the same subject from the side and can give other perspectives which they are more likely to take on board and consider. This helps to increase critical thinking.

Its not as hard to do as people think.

Its about resetting the landscape of how people are thinking rather than just supplying them with preset conclusions.

RedToothBrush

I think that some things are "obvious" whether they are true to not, and they are "obvious" to all but a tiny tiny minority of incredible brains who have researched in detail, or those people who are ideologically opposed to what is "obvious".

Here are some "obvious" things, some of which may be able to be proven to be incorrect, and which hard left open borders ideologues oppose -

If the population rises due to immigration then that makes it harder to get a doctors appointment, unless government is pumping lots of extra money into the NHS

If the population rises due to immigration then house prices and rents will rise, and more houses will be built in the countryside and on the green belt around towns, which reduces biodiversity and people's ability to access green spaces

If we assume that there is such a thing as a British culture, then immigrants dilute it, and with enough immigrants it will ineitably be destroyed.

If Muslims continue to immigrate in high numbers and out-breed non-muslims, then one day the country will be majority muslim

If the UK become majority muslim we might vote in a party similar to the Taliban.

Whilst I fully support science, research, facts and evidence-based objective truth I also believe that perception is hugely important. People's perception is that it is bloomin obvious that overcrowding, and house prices and building on the green belt and loss of what it is to be british and failing NHS are all linked, and changing the narrative is simply not going to happen by academic argument. The only way it can happen is if house prices and rents and waiting lists all fall, and Britain starts feeling more british again, all whilst immigration stays at a high level. And this would have to happen over a period of time.

If that is what worries people why do they refuse to engage with climate change, wars in other countries and aid? We know where these people are coming from and why.

Presumably because the causal link is not perceived to be so clear cut.

Photos of boats + high published immigrant numbers + more people who are not white on your local street + higher house prices and rents = "It is obvious they are all linked" (and it would remain obvious even if it just so happened to be true that an academic with incredible research proved it was all a coincidence - they simply would not be believed other than perhaps by other academics who supported and fully understood the methodology.)

If scientists say average global temperatures are rising by 0.5 degrees every 40 years (my figures for arguments sake not real figures) and this causes famine and war and immigration to the UK then many people will perceive the truth to be "0.5 degrees is nothing". The link is simply not as obvious. Also they might think famine in africa is not my problem, and if there are wars why are the fighting age men not fighting - why are they here?"

And not only that, of course, many people would take the view that there are problems in the UK and that we have no moral obligation to help foreign people, nor can we afford to. And arguably they'd be right on those things too.

I woudl strongly suggest that "elites" and the "the left" would do very well to consider that what is perceived to be true because it looks obvious it is true is MUCH more important than what can be proed to be true by academics.

Not least when academia claims men can have vaginas and a lesbian can get her partner pregnant if she doesn't wear a condom.

What is ridiculous is that some people in the UK having been lied to by a posh jester who got to be the PM and got Brexit, which many now regret are just as gullible, or will to give up their critical faculties to believe in another (fake) posh jester.

All of you postulating all these elaborate thought processes clearly haven't listened to people when they are asked why they support Farage / Reform.

There is no articulation about how things could be done differently, but all about some sense that they are a victim. But not identifying the person who has victimised them as the political class but outsiders, loss of englishness (whatever that is).

Alll this forelock tugging subservience hasn't got them any where has it?

And I repeat, why is the opinion of this group of people the one we are supposed to take seriously, rather than say those who want to change they system, believe in old fashioned values such as fairness.

If you think it is about popularism, ie people are getting swept up in some false reality, that is really sad. You are saying our politics should be about what is popular not what is realistic.

Would you be saying the same in 1930s Germany when Hitler was popular?

I don't even know if he needs to suggest solutions tbh. Acknowledging the issues is more than other politicians are doing.

Another striking feature of Reform voters is their pessimism and discontent, and another factor is that a chunk of people are so disaffected they're at the 'burn it all down' stage.

If nobody listens, people just get angrier, and instead of looking for solutions they end up looking for outlets for their rage.

I guess you could say a lot of the Reform vote is emotionally driven, its not necessarily reasoned.

'Reform supporters may be Britain’s most dissatisfied voters: perhaps the most distinctive feature of Reform’s support base is their shared sense of pessimism about the state of the country: they are more likely than any other voter group to believe that things in the UK are getting worse, that the country is becoming more dangerous, and - tied with the Green Party - to believe that the country needs radical change.'

Let's hope we dont end up with a Green/Reform coalition, eh?

It is less about the opinions being taken seriously, and more about the consequences of not taking the people who have those opinions seriously.

Surely the fact (assuming it is a fact) that ordinary people who are often not particularly well educated, and many will be of below average intelligence, voted Brexit, then Johnson, then maybe Farage, when I would argue all three were never going to address their problems, is precisely why we (centrists, leftists) need to listen to their concerns and address them, as that is the only way they will not inflict the next level of harm on us all by voting for a grifter like Farage.

But on top of that, if you asked the average person on that UTK march, "do you want a 5% pay rise or a 50% reduction in immigration?" I would not be surprised if 90% said a reduction in immigration. You might think they're fools for making that decision, but there is nothing inherent in the universe that makes that so, and telling them they're fools is more likely to cause a doubling down than a change of heart.

If half the country wants big change but can't articulate exactly what, then they will inevitably vote for the person who can articulate an answer to their problems. If Badenoch is going to fail to articulate convincingly, and Starmer is going to fail to try to convince them, and the rest are a bunch of "men can have vaginas" fools or Farage, then Farage is going to be incredibly popular (until he fails by his own standards as I have no doubt he will).

Sarah Ludford 🇬🇧 🇮🇪🇪🇺 🇺🇦

Does this not put the LibDems in breach of the Equality Act under which, as confirmed by the Supreme Court, ‘woman’ means biological woman?
EdwardJDavey said ‘we’ (the party) ‘entirely accept the SC jt’, but he seems totally content for the party to continue to break the law.
Quote
Dont Walrus, we'll Walryou

Replying to @JournalistJill and @jk_rowling
In related news the Lib Dems have just given the annual award for an exceptional Liberal Democrat woman to... a man
https://x.com/MartinEgg3/status/1970777425639563524

Well I hear now Farage also "isn't sure" if paracetamol causes Autism, so backing his biggest donor all the way.

There going to be a lot of women in pain for pregnancy and childbirth that can scream his name with venom I suppose. Scientology here we come.

Of course the LD gave the award to a man. How very predictable. It is all just too depressing. Bet that made No1 spot in some mag read by 130 transwomen or something, meanwhile we can just disenfranchise 51% of the population.

I met Patsy Calton. She was a lovely woman.

Cant help feeling that they are enjoying the outrage. Any thing for a headline.

Or more probably a very performative action to publicly affirm their stance that TWAT oops! genuine typo, of course if mean TWAW

I remember doing 'Arbeit, Freiheit und Brot'.

And a sense of grievance against WWI reparations coupled with hyper inflation.

It certainly wasn't just about hating jews.

@IwantToRetire I'm not quite sure what you were trying to say there, it seems garbled.

In hard times people tend to become more right wing. That is the parallel between Germany and now. Initially Germany's economy appeared to be improving, hence the Nazis grew popular support. They also used the TRA tactics of cancelling anyone who didnt agree with them. Unfortunately the left have been adopting similar tactics by insulting anyone who disagrees with them. Mock people in that deeply unpleasant fashion and you feed Farage.

A lot of people are unhappy with the political class in general. Farage feeds on that. Many people are not being offered a 5% pay rise and they arent getting a cut in immigration. They can hardly see a gp any more (but immigrants can be sent to see a doctor by taxi) and some cant work because they are waiting for NHS treatment. Stop pretending the country does not have problems. No poor person believes things re going to get better. The first thing Labour did was take money away not just from rich pensioners - which would have been popular - but from the poor grans and grandads of the poor. Then they backtrack and give it back to too many people. It shows disregard for the poor AND incompetence.

We live in a parliamentary democracy. Democracy means you have to take enough of the population with you. That means you dont keep telling them immigration benefits the country when they see fewer jobs, no pay rises because cheap labour can be imported and no council housing while their taxes go on funding illegal immigrants.

It has suited ALL the political parties to allow the narrative to be about immigrants as it distracts from the real problem of political incompetence. Farage doesnt have an answer to that either but he benefits from the idea that change is good, it wont be if the change is Farage.

I'm not quite sure what you were trying to say there, it seems garbled.
In hard times people tend to become more right wing.

Sorry you think it garbled.

I am just pointing out that all of you are trapped in the same out dated non working politics.

Its not about left or right wing its about people being willing dupes to lies.

It would be the same if a form of communism hadn't worked and the press and gossip whipped everybody up into a fervour of lets go for a more rigid communism.

It isn't about right wing.

It is about a sense of victim hood about things being done to them to people who voted for it.

But are stuck in the same cycle of we cant be wrong it must be everybody else, but are so stuck in limited lens of how the world works they just repeat the same patterns.

And effectively I am saying that much of the comments on here are also stuck in that.

If to quote the parody remark of people move to the right, is just contributing to people endlessly trapped in repeating the same mistakes over and over again.

Whine, whine, I spent 2 minutes reading a newspaper headline and gave you my vote, and now you aren't doing what I want based on my vast in depth analysis of the ecomonic problems in the UK.

Cant be me.

Must be somebody else. But hold on I voted for the politicians last time round, so it must somebody else. Must be those foreigners who do our shit work that we dont think we should have to do.

And this fake idea of what England was is part of this dillusion.

This isn't about anything but aping what they have seen on tv.

(And just to stress this isn't just about the "right" wing in the UK. Look at left demo where they think they are being as heroic and brave as freedom fighters facing a military regime. )

As predicted in the 50s "the medium is the message"

I see that, but I also see that the agents of this IS often right wing. As @RedToothBrush Redtoothbrush pointed out it is often Farage shouting "squirrel" and politicians having to waste time to pivot to fight an imaginary bear that has no impact. It's tedious to watch when you see it play out. See this Trump/Farage paracetamol fight right now. We will have to spend millions setting the record straight, or trying to through Public Health channels, midwife checks, press conferences, no doubt a paper will have to be written...why? Because these idiots get air time and people have lost all ability to know what the truth is since the internet gave us doublespeak.

people have lost all ability to know what the truth is since the internet gave us doublespeak

... and our politicians told us, straight faced, that some women have a penis and then put in place laws to adjust our thinking if we did not agree

Yup, Russia must be laughing it's tits off.

Quite! As we've said sooooo many times, if politicians are prepared to lie about something so fundamental & basic as biology ie that men can become women just be saying they are, then it's fair for ppl to assume they'll lie about anything if they choose too

theyre caught in a web of their own making!