Trans row threatens to overshadow Lib Dem conference

[IwantToRetire]

Sir Ed Davey faces activist revolt over party rules that allow biological men to take women’s posts

The current rules allow those who “self-identify as women” to stand for party posts set aside for women, which the activists say dilutes the chance that biological women can reach the top of the party.

The vote will be put before conference on Saturday, but it is understood that trans rights activists will try to get it cancelled to avoid embarrassment. This is despite a YouGov poll showing that three-quarters of Lib Dem members do not support the party’s stance on allowing gender self-ID.

Full article at https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/17/trans-row-threatens-to-overshadow-lib-dem-conference/

Also at https://archive.is/hykSr

It’s only a gotcha question if you’re an idiot or a coward. If you’re a normal person it’s completely straightforward.

Wel exactly. But journalists will keep asking it to the politicians who they know will give a ridiculous answer.

Are the Lib Dems Britain’s most hypocritical party?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/09/22/ed-davey-liberal-democrtas-division/

And https://archive.is/PlTtm

It is a gotcha question. But the thing is - it exposes them as politicians that obviously don't mean what they say and are willing to make themselves look foolish on national broadcast for inscrutable reasons rather than base their views on reality. And it's highly amusing click bait that generate views and ratings! Why do a boring, hour long, in depth interview to determine whether someone's policies are coherent and practicable enough for them to lead when you can demonstrate their unfitness in a few minutes?

I think what you say about the current mood on rural communities is important especially because the Lib Dems have been the traditional alternative to the Tories in lots of country places. Labour have never stood a chance of winning in these constituencies.
I am very worried that Reform will simply hoover up a lot of these voters who feel a massive disconnect with the Tories (and Labour) and see gender woo overcoming the Lib Dems.

They make a connection with rising population (largely fuelled by immigration)

From 2004 to 2023, 65% of population growth is the result of net migration
Since 2020 almost all population growth is due to net migration

FWR not the place for it but, like trans, another example of something that we can't have a sensible discussion about.

We also cant have a sensible discussion about it as most people pick and just the facile media for the "truth" that suits their existing views.

Local Libdem came around tonight asking if there was anything I'd like to raise with the councillors. I asked if a woman could have a penis. The old guy sighed nodded and left without a word. I suspect it wasn't the first time he'd been asked this evening. Let's hope he feeds back up the chain.

It is difficult to know what the true figures are - the ones quoted above are from the ONS, so hopefully well informed.

Equally, I'm not sure what other source could be used to corroborate

I wasn't doubting your figures.

I was pointing out that we no longer live in a world where "official" sources are accepted for being that.

We live in a world of alternative facts, ie facts that suit what we think.

So the Trump can say that panadol use in pregnancy causes autism, and why there has been an increase in it, because the Amish have no autism and they dont use modern medicine.

We live in a world of alternative facts, ie facts that suit what we think.

Agreed. For me, the moment that public figures started talking about 'my truth' and 'my lived experience' marked a turning point in the retreat from factual decision making

The pro-men Liberal women's group big sexist conference banner "transphobia isn't Feminist" has been called out by JKR

J.K. Rowling
Feminism fought for women's sex-based rights. Pretending males can also be female erases sex-based rights. Calling women and girls 'transphobic' for wanting sex-based rights is misogyny. #LibDemMisogyny
https://x.com/jk_rowling/status/1970176106478141812

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy0vvle9w7zo
Has this been posted? Didn't want to start a new thread but honestly, I despair! I have voted for LD in the past but can't vote for this.
I was just getting excited as Davey was suggesting US scientists come here, moving towards ID cards and finally being heard on BBC over Farage thanks to the Beeb being taken to court by Cardiff about impartiality. Then this. WTAF LD.

I was worrying about this recently too as there have been a few news stories where they've made statistical errors; one example being that they were using data from companies who self reported only salaries for women, resulting in us not realising the pay gap was underestimated for two decades https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/aug/25/uk-gender-pay-gap-underestimated-for-two-decades-report-says

And https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/mar/21/troubled-uk-statistics-agency-warns-of-errors-in-its-growth-figures

I think we are going to have to be very careful that this mistakes don't spiral into mistrust of these organisations (I'm already wondering what else they've affected - things we've long suspected aren't working because they don't have adequate resources), or design some further oversight team or something.

I would agree: a lot of the non-Tory vote around here has traditionally gone LibDem, which is reflected in the make-up of the district council. I even voted for them last time around, after personal assurances from the two candidates that they thought gender-woo was bollocks (well, they phrased it more politely than that...)

And Reform is massively gaining ground. I have seen a lot of flags up, which is another clue.

I found myself a few months ago explaining to a very old friend, LibDem to her core, why Farage had won in Clacton. Nobody had listened, I told her. They were caught up with gender woo while banning discussions on immigration => house prices => massive housebuilding. She did seem to take the point.

Also, a personal whinge of mine: the political class, in all its ramifications from the very top to small quangos, does NOT understand the countryside at all. For example, I recently answered a survey about the Countryside Code. It asked me what category of respondent I was. There were various categories for visitors to the countryside, but not a single one that I could tick as someone who lives in the countryside and walks in it almost every day of the year. I was quite cross and made a comment in the open text box at the end.

Feed that level of utter cluelessness up the line and you start to understand why nobody in Westminster seems to understand how people feel about the land.

I have not looked into the calculation of gender pay gap before.

Are you aware of a definitive method for calculation?

This ties in with my experience too - I’m a bit more urban but spend a lot of time rurally. There’s huge swathes of the country that are going to vote for Reform at the next general election and the mainstream parties are utterly clueless as to why and/or what to do about it.

I think the only way Reform won’t win the GE is if the mainstream parties collaborate in key constituencies and run a single, centrist ABF (anyone but Farage) candidate in opposition to Reform. But Farage is steaming ahead and every now and then will come up with something that even I (old fashioned socialist leftie) will admit he has a point. Of course, this shows his total absence of core values outside anti-immigration, and his willingness to support any popular policy that will get him the vote.

I don’t know whether to be more concerned about the actual policies or the total lack of any credibility of Reform politicians outside Tice and Jenkins - both of whom represent rural areas perfectly described by Edith. We’ve only got to look at the USA to see the chaos that a populist AND incompetent government can cause.

There was a motion that I wasn't part of to move on to next business but, given we debated these very issues just a few months ago, I think it's quite reasonable to say we're the only party engaging with these issues."

Ed Davey from the BBC report posted by @somethingnewandexciting

Are the LDs really engaging with these issues? I don’t remember a debate from the LDs - was he referring to a court case?

You’d think that if they actually were engaging with the issues they would have updated their policies to be lawful and not voted down discussion about but but what do I know?

"There aren't many things guaranteed in life. But if the BBC is interviewing a Lib Dem member called 'Rebecca', who's wearing an 'Elect More Women' t-shirt, the chances that he's a man is 100%"

Watch the clip from Politics Live, it'll give you a laugh if nothing else.

x.com/ripx4nutmeg/status/1970463459335926057

100% spot on

Farage is steaming ahead

Only because the media is giving him an easy ride.

If they had ridiculed him from the start, he would just be a comedy act.

It is the media treating him as normal that is the problem.

But does illustrate (as happened in the US with Trump) is that if you constantly hear someone talking bollocks then the bollocks no longer seems bollocks.

Like the net migration figures.

The other side of that figue is not the immigrantion, but that we, ie the UK as a whole, isn't having enough children (in terms of economic futures).

So if we dont want to have children we need other people to fill the gaps.

The worry is that too many people just take sound bits of tv, and dont bother to engage their brains.

I disagree.

For one, lots of people don't trust the MSM, not least reform voters. I don't believe that pointing out that best case is that he has honest intentions but is an incompetent grifter and puppet for Trump would have any impact.

As someone who has never voted to a party for the right of the Lib Dems, and more often voted labour, I can certainly see that there are a lot of people out there like me.

Not impressed with labour at all, not least their failure to be even vaguely centre left in economic terms, their hatred of free speech and their TQ+ / woke elements which have far too much power.

Tories - useless by their own standards, and I don't like their standards.

Lib Dem, greens - Total woke / TQ+ nonsense.

As someone who is left wing my choice is really "vote Reform because at least they seem to be quite anti TQ+ / woke, and they might actually try to do a tiny bit to address excessive immigration and islamism" or "don't vote because they are all totally appalling".

Also, in terms of population / economic growth. On the one hand you are right, we need immigration to boost the economy and do jobs we need doing. On the other hand it is blatantly completely unsustainable and anti- what the British population want to continue with the pyramid scheme we currently have, whereby government debt rises, productivity stagnates, and we have to increase the population to pay the increasing debt and look after the elderly (just like in 50 years the same thing will still be happening). People - even if they can;t express it clearly - understand that this is an issue.

Everything you say maybe true but what rational person would then think Reform has the answers.

Just so daft and counter intuitive.

That's why it is dangerous that Farage is treated by MSM as though he is "normal".

Even if it means thatas you are queuing at the supermarket check out and see some headline.

We all know that the MSM (papers and tv) can absolutely destroy someone.

By some chance I happened to hear part of Ed Davey's conference speech. And if they weren't being such idiots over TWAW I would vote for them based on that speech.

Its the speech the Starmer should have made, instead of all that island of strangers nonsense.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cjedy22e0yqt

Farage has been mocked and maligned in MSM for decades now. It only makes him more popular amongst his supporters. (See also: Trump). His party is getting lots of votes, therefore the press has to take him seriously. I would argue they should be taking him more seriously than they currently are, properly pulling apart all his policy statements to show just how unworkable they are.

The problem with using language such as “engaging brains”, “rational”, “daft” is that it is not actually engaging with the people who are disenfranchised and disillusioned with mainstream politics, especially those described so well by Edith. And in many situations it is counter-productive to effectively call someone ill informed and stupid if you’re trying to persuade someone to your point of view.