Another breastfeeding one

[MisssCackle]

Couldn’t see a thread on this.
In the latest of Breastfeeding batshittery..‘Breastfeeding and Lactation Support UK’ have today posted this.

I am so angered by it. The UK breastfeeding rates are amongst some of the lowest globally. We should be empowering women, not erasing them. Encouraging them to leave if they disagree?? They should be ashamed.

I did some training to be a bf counselor recently. The only course available to me was an online programme, based in Canada I think. I was advised from rhe start that they were in the process of updating course materials to be more inclusive. "Mother" and "breastfeeding" were being phased out and "parent" and "human milk feeding" were being introduced instead. It didn't feel inclusive to me, it felt like erasure.

There will be women in breastfeeding groups who have disabilities, in numbers well above those who don't identify as mothers. But I'm pretty sure they don't give consideration to those who cannot hear their baby cry, or who cannot support baby with two arms. There is a default "breastfeeding parent" and it's not exclusive to assume that, because you can't anticipate every difference in a group of thousands. I think most people understand that, but unsure why a particular group of women get special mention.

(And yes, I used to be in your group Becky).

It's a breastfeeding AND lactation support group which covers that point. The demographic is anyone who lactates including those who identify as trans. We also have HCPs not all of whom are female or even parents but work in roles where they need to support lactation such as midwives, health visitors, GPs, etc not all of which need to be female to do 🤦🏼‍♀️

I think that's where this particular thread does tend to be a bit of an echo chamber though. I follow along because I appreciate hearing different perspectives and try to understand where others are coming from but I do think it's a bit sad that you'd assume only one person could possibly see this differently out of all of mumsnet.

Of course we give consideration to those with disabilities and if you were in the group you'd know that we treat cases on an individual basis so not sure where you're getting that from 🧐

It's not just the word "mamas" though is it? Its any reference to women or mothers at all. People are free to refer to themselves however they want, but they shouldnt get to demand that everyone else erases their own identity to make them feel better. Why doesnt the inclusion go both ways?

Nope using breastfeeding AND lactation would include all and anyone who is lactating. If a person isn't lactating then they wouldn't be in the group unless they are a health care professional working with those who are lactating.

How many members have you lost since posting that?

I can’t believe these two posters are at all health professionals. This is the strangest run of comments.
It’s really unsympathetic to new mums. I don’t call myself or anyone else mama, but I know people who find it a useful term to help them through a difficult transitional period in their life, I think it helps them find strength in a new identity.
I wouldn’t be remotely upset be being referred to as a mama, especially as every health professional you meet from birth onwards just calls you ‘mum’ in every interaction.

Its sad you would police ordinary women’s inoffensive language when they are so vulnerable and need help.

Or perhaps we just don’t agree with excluding vulnerable minorities?

Nobody is excluding women. You identify as whatever you like.

I’m a women, she/her. Mum to my kids. But if I walked into a room and saw a mix of men and women and addressed the men in the room and ignored the women, the women would be excluded. That is literally as simple as this is. “Good evening all” includes everyone in the room, including the mice crawling around in the floorboards. Literally nobody is upset.

”Be kind” but only if it suits your views on minority groups.

So you don’t let transmen join? Or are you saying transmen are not men? Slightly transphobic there.

We’re at 57,500, so..

Inclusion does go both ways but the group as a whole is diverse so when addressing the whole group gender neutral language is used. If you insist on using gendered language you are excluding some members. Any member can refer to themselves how they please they just don't get to assume how anyone else identifies.

Less than 25 - it's not a new rule. We were just updating group info yesterday but it's been a rule since about 2022 ISH!

Not as many as you hoped

“Women using made up labels” and “I have no problem with their existence and wholeheartedly wish them well” don’t go together unfortunately. Also then calling them self obsessed… you’re a real charmer.

Errr don’t you mean birthing parents and babies! I’m slightly worried about your transphobia here. You do know not everyone who chestfeeds is a mother?

And a lot of people hate being referred to as mum after birth. If any health professional called me mum id 100% correct them with my name. I'm a human alongside motherhood I'm not solely a mum and I'm certainly not their mum.

But that's not what's happened here... its the difference between identifying yourself as a woman and mother- fine, but understanding that not everyone else wants to be identified by you in that way and rightly or wrongly that would make some people really uncomfortable. Or make them think you're talking to everyone but them and don't want their contribution or presence in the group.

No, Nelly. YOU just said that. I said biological men are not allowed. Trans men are more than welcome in our group if they are lactating/pregnant ☺️

ha ha, going to the GP worried about your baby and correcting them about your name! As if you care about yourself one little bit in that moment.

We allow any human who is lactating or a health care professionals who works with those who lactate such as midwives, health visitors, gp's etc.

That poster was quoting another poster. People just reaching all over the place here to miss the point.

Who said solely the GP and who said when worried about my baby? Weird narrative you're trying to spin there. But yes id ask to be called by my name not my parental status.

I agree, I am really struggling to believe they are healthcare professionals (hence me reporting as it could jeopardise her career).