Another breastfeeding one

[MisssCackle]

Couldn’t see a thread on this.
In the latest of Breastfeeding batshittery..‘Breastfeeding and Lactation Support UK’ have today posted this.

I am so angered by it. The UK breastfeeding rates are amongst some of the lowest globally. We should be empowering women, not erasing them. Encouraging them to leave if they disagree?? They should be ashamed.

A better solution is if some women get over themselves and accept that given they've just given birth and are lactating, that they are indeed women 🙄

It's a very aggressive tone and highly inappropriate and unprofessional if she is indeed a student midwife. Doesn't really inspire confidence in the training and supervision she is receiving.

But that was my point…

You’re wrong there.
I won’t disclose why.

I was in an American evidence-based group (may have been a VBAC group) who released similar such guidelines many years ago. Initially we were told not to address participants as mama or ladies/girls due to trans. In a group of many, many thousands there were perhaps two women who were out as transmen, and then a handful of NBs. But the the policing extended to not assuming pronouns ie people referring to the OP "she said..." had their knuckles rapped. People posting pics of children in a dress with ribbons in their hair had admins screaming at the people who assumed they were baby girls. It was actually insane. I ended up leaving when admins lost their shit because people referred to a grieving mum as "mama". The mum in question said she was happy to be referred to in that way, in fact it gave her comfort, and yet still these frothing imbeciles wouldn't let it go.

They’re not. You’re being deliberately obtuse.

It doesn't alienate anyone. We've had the rule for several years and we still have 57000+ members. Most don't care about.not being able to call other adults mummy. It's weird that you do.

Won’t disclose why, because she’s right on the mark.

Our training teaches us to be inclusive as well. If a patient comes in and asks to be referred to by chosen pronouns we are taught to respect and use them. Hope that helps ;)

I wouldn't say that using the term 'everyone' erases or shames women when it's used all the time in female only groups anyway as it is neutral language.

However if you're talking to a collective, knowing that someone in the group doesn't identify as female and you're using a female specific term then you are effectively saying that you are talking to everyone but them. Of course that will cause issue in a group where you do ideally want everyone to feel welcome and included and especially where someone may already feel different and worried about how others will accept them. You don't need to agree with their beliefs on a personal level to be inclusive and saying 'everyone' is still very acceptable neutral language. Surely it needs to be based on the needs of the group - and if you're addressing a mixed group (or a group who class themselves as a mixed group) then there is a social expectation that you'll address all members in an all encompassing way. When you're speaking to a group of women who you know all identify as women then it's obviously not a consideration you need to make so use ladies or mamas as you wish.

I think for me it's the balance of being able to treat someone with respect and welcome without having to agree with their politics or world view.

The tone of the post could have been better, but I think the overall point is still a fair one to make.

And what have you personally done to help improve breastfeeding rates? Have you paid for training to help others? Have you started any online groups to voluntarily give accurate breastfeeding support? Do you volunteer your time at a local breastfeeding group each week? Or do you sit behind a computer screen doing F ALL whilst complaining about those who are actively supporting lactating people.

You can personally believe whatever you want, but when addressing 57000+ people it's rude to assume their beliefs based on your own. If I started calling you a male would that be okay because I believe you're a man?

You’re angered by being asked to use inclusive language?

and before you even start, where does it say you can’t refer to yourself as a woman.

it just means don’t walk into a room of people and say “hi ladies” and ignore the existence of others in the room who might not answer to it. Saying “hi all” requires absolutely nothing from you, yet it can make someone’s day so much better. Be kind as they say, but I guess that only applies to those you feel are worth of it?

Gross.

It's not erasure of women call yourself what you want but don't assume what other people are... Also I'm a grown ass adult I don't want another adult calling me mama it's weird AF only my kids call me mum.

Do you not think though that (on both sides of the debate) things often get so over-emotive and often personal and derogatory that it becomes really hard to have genuine, open and respectful discussions about this - and to me what you've just described is the outworking of that - where you end up with adminis who are probably trying their best to take a neutral stand but end up going OTT with it because noone can have a sensible discussion about what's a fair line to draw?

SAY IT LOUDER

Which is why we're not just called breastfeeding were called breastfeeding AND lactation which covers all :) being inclusive isn't hard.

Not that it is of any relevance but I have done some of those things, yes. Have you?

You’ve really missed the point.

Ohhhh Lordy. So wrong and so loud.

So… segregate them? Because you don’t want them in the same group as you?

I agree and tbh as someone who does also run a bf support group for mums I think it really underestimates how difficult it is for admins who give up their free time to try and coordinate a group that's meeting the needs of lots of different individuals with different beliefs and backgrounds etc. Just adopting the approach that the majority rules isn't always fair because it means that whatever group is in the minority will always be shut out. You don't know what conversations admins have had with people in the group behind the scenes. Often they'll be trying to weigh things up with more information than the other members of the group will be privy to.

"There's that "inclusive"/"exclusionary" thing again. Not inclusive of anyone who believes that if you breastfeed you are a woman, whether you like it or not."
I think this is really only an issue if you can only exist in an echo chamber and struggle to deal with people who think differently to you. Obviously breastfeeding has very political undertones for loads of reasons but you equally can't expect all breastfeeding people to have hive mind.

Ah. You are the moderator aren’t you?

Completely unprofessional. I’d be referring to your codes of conduct and social media policy if I were you.