Another breastfeeding one

[MisssCackle]

Couldn’t see a thread on this.
In the latest of Breastfeeding batshittery..‘Breastfeeding and Lactation Support UK’ have today posted this.

I am so angered by it. The UK breastfeeding rates are amongst some of the lowest globally. We should be empowering women, not erasing them. Encouraging them to leave if they disagree?? They should be ashamed.

Cruelty is exactly right.

And it’s all very well saying “Our group our rulez bbz” but this treatment of women who don’t fall in line and obey is nothing short of misogynistic. Just own it, rather than claiming you care about women and just want to help.

The power trip is something else to be noted. A Facebook group is these people’s kingdoms and they like to lord over the peasants and put anyone in the stocks who falls out of line. Pathetic

Only if you believe in ‘gender’. I personally do not have a gender identity so I use sexed based language.

Can I ask @STMWBec did transmen request these rules specifically - i.e. that general female forms of address weren't used?

For the love of God, nobody wants to “erase the existence” of trans people, stop your nonsense🙄
Refusing to call women and mothers women and mothers because someone in a breastfeeding group claims they’re not either of those things is not erasing anything, except perhaps women’s right to call themselves women.
You can champion that if you please, I certainly won’t.

You're wrong though, we've been open 8 years we've had this rule for many of them and we don't lose members in high amounts sorry to burst your bubble. The vast majority of members are inclusive.

No. We are all regulated by the organisations we work with, we are insured by them and several years ago they all made the change to be inclusive in language. We have to abide by that or we lose our status as a peer supporter, we'd invalidate our insurance and not be allowed to practice.
So as an entire admin team trained by the organisations who govern us we had to be an inclusive group in order to remain open and to allow us to continue giving support.

they aren't trying to include men. they're trying to include women who identify as men.

It’s deliberate attempts at erosion of all sex based language. Once we don’t have the language then our sex based rights can more easily be removed. Some people might feel righteous about their attempts to #bekind but all they are doing is imposing their beliefs onto others and ultimately inadvertently undermining women’s rights. It’s not just about one FB group.

Can you not see the utter nonsense inherent in having a baby whilst claiming to be a man?
And to appease these people, we have to stop calling ourselves women.
No fucking way.

This is shockingly Orwellian but not surprising with recent TRA ideology pushes.

Does that actually require you to require all users of the group to use so called inclusive language?

Or that you should be okay with using preferred pronouns as a medical practitioner?

I also asked if any transmen had actually requested it?

It requires the group as a whole to be inclusive or for us not to allow excluding of any minority groups including trans people.
The rules are there to see before anyone joins and it's not hard to write hey all instead of hey ladies to allow everyone to feel included and welcome.
When talking to someone on a 1:1 basis we absolutely use preferred pronouns for said individual and if a member is talking about themselves in a post they can use language that they wish for themselves. It's only on posts that address the whole group as a collective as over 57,000 members we won't assume every single person's gender identity and to use gendered language will exclude some people.

I already answered with no.

So the group itself isn’t professionally regulated?

Again all we have is your word for it. Nobody has to believe you. And frankly they’d be fools to take advice from Dr Facebook rather than professional advice in the appropriate setting.

Your workplaces can decide to be “inclusive in language”. They can’t make staff do it and they most certainly can’t make patients use inclusive language to others patients.

See the difference between a professional setting and a social media group?

We have to abide by that or we lose our status as a peer supporter

Actually workplaces cannot discriminate against staff who are gender critical and therefore would refuse to use gender neutral language. Sacking you would be illegal.

You most CERTAINLY don’t have to use it in your personal lives. Whatever made you think your peer support role was on the line if you didn’t toe the misogynistic line of “inclusive language” (aka inclusive unless you’re actually a woman who recognises sex not gender)

So women, then

So you don’t even know if anyone wants this?

Whats wrong with saying “Hey ladies” or “Hey mamas?”

Language is important. Many of us refuse to erase women out of language, for good reason

Every single admin is trained and regulated by the organisation they trained with so yes the group as a whole needs to follow the rules and regulation set out by the organisations we all trained with 🤦🏼‍♀️

We aren't employed by them but we are insured by them and if we don't abide by their policies we lose our insurance and can't use the titles we trained for.

So then if we lose our title we then wouldn't be a group where all admin are trained and regulated 🤦🏼‍♀️

Not everyone in the group identifies as female that I am very aware of, a lot of females also don't like or align with the word ladies and feel it's very classist and again a lot of grown adults don't want other adults to call them by their parental status or to be reduced solely down to their parental status..

I know I for one don't feel comfortable with other adults calling me mama.

I don’t think you understand. Your group is not regulated. You should probably stop thinking it is. You are giving advice in a personal capacity not a professional one, you’re not at work. Therefore your advice on the group is not regulated, no matter how many HCPs are admin. If you give wrong advice in the group, there’s no fallback because nobody will pick up on it through governance and safeguarding procedures

We aren't employed by them but we are insured by them and if we don't abide by their policies we lose our insurance and can't use the titles we trained for.

Whoever told you that?!
Law overrides policy. By law, being gender critical is protected. You absolutely don’t have to pretend women are men.

So then if we lose our title we then wouldn't be a group where all admin are trained and regulated

You aren’t regulated on the group now 🤣

So what if they feel uncomfortable. That’s life. Even children know not everything can be their way.

Imagine being so arrogant you think on a group of 57,000 people everyone who posts should use YOUR preferred words. I don’t bow to arrogant weirdos like that, it’s a shame you want other people to.

Granted mama is a weird word to call a grown woman but what is your problem with it per se?

You're wrong but ok. I won't be engaging any further
. It's very boring now.

I’m wrong, about which bit?

Sorry, but surely this argument works both ways in this discussion?

Well, you have a group of 50,000 females (or whatever the number of active users is) on whom you have an impact, whether you want it or not. You can either choose to normalise the censoring of female-specific language, like you’re doing now, or you can do what is good for women - help ensure that we do not overlook female-specific provisions, we record correct medical data and statistics, we keep our female rights. The more we blur the lines/ language and create loopholes, the more it is the females who lose out.

You’ve chosen to help mothers - do it responsibly.

Just in case anyone missed it STMWBec clarified no transmen have asked for the removal of using words such as mums, women, ladies etc.

For all we know they don't care, don't want to be controlling others use of language or think it could have negative consequences for biological women. It's a large anon online group of thousands, not addressing them personally.

No doubt their gender dysphoria is off the roof having given birth and breastfeeding. I'd hope they'd get actual tailored specialist support like mothers with mental health difficulties do.

It does kind of remind me when the use of "blackboard" was decided to get racist...

The vast majority of members are inclusive.

There is something quite delicious about excluding those who are not inclusive!

It's the classic they are in the group they must agree with these rules.

Or more likely they just want breastfeeding help and support...