Another breastfeeding one

[MisssCackle]

Couldn’t see a thread on this.
In the latest of Breastfeeding batshittery..‘Breastfeeding and Lactation Support UK’ have today posted this.

I am so angered by it. The UK breastfeeding rates are amongst some of the lowest globally. We should be empowering women, not erasing them. Encouraging them to leave if they disagree?? They should be ashamed.

Why do you persist in dehumanising and disrespecting women? I find your attitude incredibly disturbing when combined with your apparent profession. 'Lactating people' is cold, callous, dehumanising. These are women, breastfeeding women, these are mothers. You are forcing this derogatory and unscientific terminology on them, policing, censoring, bullying and controlling them when they are at their most vulnerable. Are you proud of that?

It’s not “respectful” to expect anyone to avoid referring to themselves as female, a woman or a mother because someone else can’t cope with it.
Why does all this respect that’s demanded only ever go one way?

Yes this perversion, subterfuge and misinformation when it comes to medical terminology in cancer information is putting women's lives at risk, particularly those for whom English is not their first language. Pure evil.

I think what @Honish is alluding to is that you are the sexual deviant in this scenario and have created the group to meet your own needs to exploit women. The impressive mental gymnastics it took to get there are quite something. And it's amazing to me that anyone would call that respectful debate as opposed to a personal attack which to me breach the mumsnet terms of use. @mnhq

Absolutely noone at any point has said that women cannot refer to themselves however they may choose. They have said that in this particular group the terms of agreement are that you use neutral language to refer to other people.

Very proud of my group and my contributions to infant feeding in general. What do you do to help?

Oh I am aware what they are alluding to but also incorrect as a whole. Doesn't want men in the group but also doesn't want profiles being vetted either. Says theyll take to their LLL friend but anyone who knows anything about LLL know they are also trans inclusionary. They're not actually interested in good lactation or breastfeeding support they just want to be transphobic.

You don't care about mothers and babies, that is very clear.

Just because some embrace the identity of being a mother or being named as a mother and it isnt insulting or dismissive to them doesnt mean it isnt dismissive to others. No one has said to "hide" or "avoid" using the word mother/mama/mummy but to avoid using them as a COLLECTIVE noun. Its really not that hard to grasp.

Men can get breast cancer too but will not necessarily engage with health advertisements around breast cancer as they do not see themselves as having breasts. Is it medical misinformation or is it widening a much needed campaign in order to encourage more people to check themselves properly and accurately and catch any concerns earlier?

I would say that refusing to provide accessible healthcare information that puts demographics of our population who may be affected at risk is pure evil.

Especially when there continues to be a lot of campaigning done that also includes how to check yourself for male/female/ non binary individuals AS WELL AS campaigns specifically targeting women which use female specific language. We need our healthcare to be more inclusive not less inclusive provided that is done in tandem with female specific language/visual aids etc. That is not erasure of female experience. It's inclusion of male/ non binary/trans experience. Also important for trans individuals with SEN/ men who's first language is not English.

I absolutely do, alongside everyone else who are parents and lactates. I use pronouns the individual asks me to use. So I care more about people than you clearly do, you'd purposefully exclude someone from support because their gender beliefs aren't the same as yours.

4/5 of my babies had posterior tongue-tie, I've benefitted from incredible breastfeeding support over the years. Which is exactly why I have found it so upsetting to hear that you routinely delete womens posts, women who are seeking help for something so vital, simply because it began with something like 'Hey mamas' or 'Hi ladies'.
I find that devastating.

Right, that’s why she’s dedicated 8 years of her life to supporting people with feeding their babies, created a huge space to do so and assisted with the training of numerous peer supporter in the process (myself included), and is now training further to help bring those same babies into the world safely.

You have made a decision which is coloured by your own worldview and fears, about who Bec is and why she does what she does. But I can tell you for damn certain that you’re wrong. And that despite all the vitriol you’ve spewed at her today; she’ll get up again tomorrow and keep on helping mothers with their babies, and any other iteration of lactating person who needs support feeding their baby too. Just like she helped me, twice over. Which is why I trained, and joined as an admin, to pay that forward.

I wonder what you’ll do tomorrow to provide real, actionable support in the world of infant feeding?

We don't delete them 🤦🏼‍♀️

I have never excluded any woman from anything. This silly subject matter that you are so oddly preoccupied with doesn't come up in normal circles, probably because mothers are preoccupied with actually mothering and genuinely supporting each other rather than placing demands on people over trivial, irrelevant personal details.

Again - not deleted! Asked to change ONE word, then reposted and supported. It’s really not that deep, @Honish!

Your replies are very exclusionary.

But they don't though, this poster already explained that they acknowledge the persons post and request a slight change before it is added to the page? This is completely normal process for any moderated group irregardless of the nature of the group to stop people posting harmful content. Even hobby or pet group pages will do this in line with whatever the boundaries of the group are which you are informed of at point of joining.

So anyone engaging with the group will know to expect a wait for their post to be vetted before its posted, they'll be notified of that in advance and they'll also have already been explained the boundaries of the group at the outset... so this is not something people are going into unforeseen and it will be their informed choice to make as to whether they want to agree to those terms of use or not?

I have felt for a long time that there’s nothing more batshit than a breastfeeding group

I was part of one about “Lactivism” and got kicked out for a gender critical comment. I could not believe that a group that advocates for breastfeeding support and better maternity support didn’t allow me pointing out that men couldn’t breastfeed. I got absolutely piled on. It was very odd

Women have been supporting each other since the dawn of time, its really sad that you are making assumptions that the average womans contribution would count for so little. I have no intention of disclosing to you what I do in my community personally or professionally.

I find the post / rules comes across as aggressive and appropriates racism to push a trans agenda. It wouldn't be a group I'd want to be part of as a BAME GC woman.

It seems like they care more about being holier than thou than helping others.

It would be a bit different if there was an explanation that there are trans men - aka biological women who identify as men in the group and a request to use neutral terms.

Its a breastfeeding and LACTATING group.
And yes, I should sure hope that a prostate cancer group would be inclusive within its language given that transgender women can still get prostate cancer regardless of bottom surgery as the prostate is not removed. prostatecanceruk.org/prostate-information-and-support/risk-and-symptoms/trans-women-and-prostate-cancer

The line 'not everyone identifies as female' encapsulates that...
And what rule makes you feel uncomfortable as a BAME GC woman?
How do we appropriate racism?

I am “the average woman”. Our contributions are mighty. But this, what you’re doing now? This isn’t supporting women, or babies. This is dogpiling on someone who’s done a heck of a lot to further the cause for breastfeeding, just because you don’t like one aspect of how she runs her group; an aspect that on the average day, doesn’t take up even a hundredth of the time that dealing with all this nonsense has taken up today.