"Right or Left, I want No Part in Extremism" - Milli Hill

[WhereDidSummerGoAgain]

A thoughtful article by Milli Hill today.

https://millihill.substack.com/p/right-or-left-i-want-no-part-of-extremism

I can't help but find myself agreeing with her.

I know there's been a lot of debate on here about Kelly-Jay and whether she supports the far right.

Milli's article links to a Twitter post by Tommy Robinson showing an event and his inner circle. Kelly-Jay is there, dressed in a Union Jack.

This is pretty conclusive now, isn't it? You don't go and hang out with racists like Tommy Robinson and pals in times like these if you don't support them, surely?!

Milli's stood up for Kelly-Jay before, but this is a step too far for her, and for me too.

Just wondering what others think? This really doesn't look like a mistake this time.

I agree. I think that having a problem with too high immigration is a standard right wing position but it's not far right and is fairly mainstream..I do think SYL.is far right, and he attacks individuals all the time
Therefore I don't think Milli Hill is at fault for calling SYL.and the other march organisers far right..which is how this whole discussion started. I dont think everyone on the march was necessarily far.right.

TR being a zionist is neither here nor there - its an affiliation of convenience. Being zionist doesn't mean you are not antisemitic or racist. It doesn't mean you are racist either.

The religious right in the US has always been zionist because of biblical scripture, nothing to do with opposing antisemitism. And TR is probably zionist because its a way of taking sides against Muslims. Personally I don't feel 'safer' with people who are Islamophobic - quite the opposite.

This is what i think Milli has wrong.

People arent attending a march to demonstrate that they agree with everything TR has every said, or to agree with what his critics believe he thinks. They didnt go to hear Elon Musk speak.

As others have stated, the numbers here are significantly higher than he can usually attract. People went to a demonstration to the government that they are not happy with policies. It just so happens to be organised by TR.

Id question if, in millis eyes, an acceptable person could organise such a march? Wouldnt they be labelled as far right because the organised it?

Well, of course I understand that citizens of a country can have different ethnic heritage. My ethnic heritage was banned from England for hundreds of years. My point is that it has now become normal for people like Kemi Badenoch to witter on about ethnic heritage as though some kinds of British citizen are more valid and authentic than others.

It's an interesting experience when the entire reason your family is in this country is because some other nation, nearly a century ago, also decided that ethnic origin was more important than citizenship.

Similarly, its an odd one to pull on people who used to live within the British empire, who were told that England was their motherland too.

Yes but... KJK was also up at the front as part of the "A team". It's different to going on the march I feel, and it's KJKs choice, she knows her own mind and certainly doesn't need other people telling her what to do. But it's also Milli Hills choice as someone who had previously agreed with her to say actually this is where we differ. It's probably where my line would be too. She didn't actually call KJK far right.
But people were questioning whether SYL is actually far right which is sort of surprising.

Amala Ekpunobi recently made an interesting video discussing flags being put up in GB.

I say GB because I live in N Ireland and we have Irish & UK & paramilitary flags put up on some lamposts almost all the year round - sometimes we also have flag colours painted on kerbs in certain areas. I thought Amala's perspective might be interesting to folk on this thread:

And in the UK we specifically have an Islamist extremism problem. It is the number one threat - by far - accounting for around 75% of extremist activity.

So why do the ongoing Palestinian marches (many organised by those with extremist connections) not provoke the same fear or criticism? The UTK event is arguably, in part, a response to all the palestinian nationalism we have been subjected to over the last couple of years.

All the while we see reports of individuals with Union Jacks being arrested or called far-right when other nationalities can carry flags without criticism. Other reports of Jewish people too afraid to go into London and an increase in anti-semitism. Of course people will start to feel resentful.

Personally I don’t like flag waving. I think it sews division. But the UK has far bigger problems atm than the far-right and this seems to go largely unrecognised.

www.mi5.gov.uk/what-we-do/countering-terrorism

He was a member of the BNP, BFP, Pegida and EDL orgs. What are they ? Not stitch and bitch groups that's for sure. And he has the backing - possibly financially as well - of Steve Bannon.
He was in contempt of court for showing footage of Asian defendants entering and leaving court during threir trial, which put the trial in jeopardy. If he cared so much about protecting females and wasn't only in it to satisfy his racism, why did put a case at risk?
I don't know how old you are, but I'm old enough to remember the football hooliganism if the 70's and early 80's and it was full of egotistical racists and fascist like Yaxley Lennon. All he wants is to stir it up so it gives him a prominent place.
He's no freedom fighter love, and you aren't the only person who watches "citizen" produced media. Trouble is, if you get your info from only this supply, you're shutting yourself off from a balance of information. Which is what you're trying to accuse me of.

This thread is just people talking past each other.
'He's no freedom fighter love' - give your head a wobble.
As I've said before MH's statement is just another self righteous attack on KJK. I'm saddened that people I admire keep stooping to this level.
I am sick to death of labels and 'eyes that fix you in a formulated phrase'

People use the term right wing to give themselves a little buzz. They are the freedom fighters standing up against Hitler and tyranny.

I don't see how you can talk about the rise of the far right without addressing the failure of the left, and boy have they failed.

That march is a wake up call - stop lecturing and listen. TR is an irrelevance.

I've never heard KB witter on about that, it seems unlikely she would.

I agree with much of that.

A few questions to all the people who think TR is a hard right racist...

When posting on social media are you trying to win people over to your view?

What is your online strategy for winning people over, if you have one, and do you think insulting them is likely to be part of a winning strategy? Bear in mind that lots of people will have very strong opinions based on what they perceive to be hard, first-hand evidence and will take a lot of convincing.

What about the country more generally? What policies can Keir Starmer bring in that will convince people (half the country, maybe more) that their concerns about two tier policing, free speech, islamism and mass immigration are completely miss-placed? (Other than ending two tier policing, restoring free speech, clamping down on islamism and reducing immigration, of course, because if your priority is virtue signalling it will always be your aim to ensure unlimited immigration, absolute freedom to all islamists and utter contempt and punishment for hurty words that you can label racism even if they are about immigration numbers or religion, not race).

Oh course TR is hard right. Words mean something, especially on this board.

I agree.

The social workers who I witnessed transing kids in care are the very same ones who turned a blind eye to the grooming gangs. And continue to do so.

If you think it's not still happening, you are very very wrong.

We have to move past Left and Right. The big issue here, in my view, is being able to speak the truth.

There is nothing wrong in wearing a union flag, I think. I read KJK's reply to MIlli Hill (who has studiously avoided talking about e.g. grooming gangs) and also the Famous Artist Birdy Rose. Hill is indulging in guilt by association and this article, though thoughtful on the surface, does not explore what any of the people she castigates actually think (I have read it twice).

Afaik the problem is illegal immigrants. No-one has a problem with legal immigrants esp if they are willing to participate in being citizens of the UK.

Where have you been? Have you not noticed the pro-Hamas marches whilst synagogues are attacked? Have you not noticed how people like Kathleen Stock (really a very mild GC woman) are being cancelled as 'bigots'? Have you not seen the non-prosecution of grooming gangs? Meanwhile, the government wants to bring in ID cards again - always a favourite of the 'left' btw (thought the Tories are not innocent of this means of controlling populations).

They have no strategy to win people over. The Left has always been very insular.it is about patting themselves on the back whilst criticising the others

What have those questions got to do with whether TR is a far right figure though? You've gone of for pages now not addressing a single point of fact about his documented history of far right groups and then almost broke your arm reaching that TR and his ilk can't possibly be racist because a black man was in the march. Your posts are showing that you'll consider no evidence that counters your limited worldview.

And when you saw "win over" what exactly do you mean? It's that exact attitude of "winning people over" to a cause that is causing the division the country has going on - because agitators like Tommy Robinson and his ilk continually spread fake news and conspiracy theories to scare people over to their side regardless of whether what they're seeing on SM is even true..given TRs track ready of posting absolute tosh, why shouldn't anyone treat any of his other claims with any veracity?

Bear in mind that lots of people will have very strong opinions based on what they perceive to be hard, first-hand evidence and will take a lot of convincing.
First hand evidence such as? TR and the flag shaggers of X are constantly posting "evidence" of events that is completely an utter bullshit. I mean even the posts of their attendance at the march is all AI slop of crowds in Paris.

As for what policies KS could bring in, he could bring in policies that would actually improve people's standards of living and communities which have been decimated by austerity, and then people wouldn't be turning to the latest social media fool telling them that the Muslim refugee with fuck all is the reason they can't get a GP appointment or why their town is broken. But of course TR and his ilk won't push for end to austerity when they've managed to make a living off of whipping up hatred and twisting people's grievances and offering no actual solutions, and why would they when men like you engage zero critical thoughts before engaging and perpetuating their social media spin, why critiquing a woman's concerns about racists with DV convictions pretending to care about women and girls.

People use the term right wing to give themselves a little buzz. They are the freedom fighters standing up against Hitler and tyranny.

This is nothing but a thought terminating cliche. People using the word far right to describe a figure who has a history of joining and starting far right groups. People also use the word far right because we have a growing presence of far right groups and individuals being radicalised by this ideology to the point it is now in the top 3 terrorist threads to the country. I'm not sure why people who can recognise the thread to the UK from Islamist terror can't also recognise we need to prevent radicalisation to far right terrorism. This lazy response of "oh people call everything far right" is a very transparent tactic to stop people in engaging in critical thought or discussions. You want free speech but wanna police people calling the far right the far right? Funny how it goes like that so often doesn't it, the people screaming the loudest for free speech when you scratch the surface really just mean pro right wing speech and the right to be racist without pushback but suddenly when you want to correctly call someone far right or fascist or racist, these terms need to be policed.

That march is a wake up call - stop lecturing and listen

This is ironic given the people most supportive of this march and TR supporters are constantly lecturing on what they think the issue is and refuse to listen or engage with all of the factual evidence that shows their anger is misplaced and their solutions are bullshit.

Just rounding this off.
Milli:

https://x.com/millihill/status/1969307307570765927?t=r3C0BOzX2RSR3OAltlokkw&s=19

After a busy few days, I'm resharing this post. I stand by every word of it, however I do apologise for using an image without credit, which is why I removed the original tweets. If you disagree with it, that's fine. To quote Greer: "It happens to be an opinion!"

And whose image did she use without permission - Birdy Rose. One of the women she named.

https://x.com/TheFamousArtBR/status/1969308669733970031?t=r3C0BOzX2RSR3OAltlokkw&s=19

Why won’t you speak to us and ask us for our opinions before publicly labelling us “far right extremists” or “fascist”
You’re still a disagrace. It’s UGLY to see you put targets on our backs without ever speaking to us or knowing what our opinions even are. Disgusting.

I know what my opinion is

Well that's your opinion. It's funny how I've never been called far right , fascist or Nazi until I started questioning the lefts orthodoxy on trans. Don't blame me if the terms are no longer meaningful. Don't you know the story of the boy who cried wolf?

Exactly this, people have been trying to smear Kellie-Jay Keen as far right for years in here - we didn't stand for it then and we're not going to stand for it now when they're trying the same with Tommy Robinson.

But the whole point of the boy who called wolf is that there was actually a wolf in the end! Its not a story about how wolves dont exist.

It's not far right to think women don't have penises

It is far right to say everything in Andres Breivik's manifesto is true. They are far right beliefs.

Hamas arent left wing and are I think are a terrorist organisation the UK. I think it's highly debatable whether trans rights ideology is technically "left" or not..

There have been loads of terrible institional failings! Some of them happened under Conservative councils and governments,.and some of them happened under New Labour councils/governments. They should never have happened/be happening. But there was no unified all powerful "far left" force in control of or behind all these things as the far left was not/is not in control of the country. Unless you think there is secret far left infiltration of government and media at all levels and that's the reason the bad things happened. AKA "Cultural Marxism". I don't think that theory stands up.

I'm not even trying to defend "the left". But the way Musk describes it sounds like an end boss from a video game. But I think he defines "left" as everything Elon Musk doesn't like.

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