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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
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49
SionnachRuadh · 15/09/2025 23:02

Marriott isn't exactly wrong about nihilism, especially when it comes to young gamer bros, but I think he's working backwards from his conclusion. And his conclusion as always is that we have to hang onto the failing regime at all costs.

What if - I make this only as a very tentative suggestion - what if the failing regime is the problem?

Namitynamename · 15/09/2025 23:35

SionnachRuadh · 15/09/2025 23:02

Marriott isn't exactly wrong about nihilism, especially when it comes to young gamer bros, but I think he's working backwards from his conclusion. And his conclusion as always is that we have to hang onto the failing regime at all costs.

What if - I make this only as a very tentative suggestion - what if the failing regime is the problem?

But Trump was supposed to represent the kicking down of the failing regime...
So the nihilists should be happy now.

The failing "regime" is a problem. But no-one has (yet)clear ideas for how to fix the problems so there is a lot of thrashing around. I would say that neoliberalism.is the regime that is failing. There are others out there who say the problem is Liberal Democracy itself. They are fringe but the more this continues the less fringe they are.

At least the UK, for all its faults, does have a tradition of pulling of quite drastic reforms when it really needs to (one nation Tories, Earl Greys reforms, Keynes, Atlee. Often in response to looking at other countries having violent revolutions. that's lower case reform by the way.

ThatBlackCat · 16/09/2025 01:47

Tinytimmy123 · 15/09/2025 13:24

They're confirming what the fbi is saying, in other words what trump wants them to say. The fact remains whether he is gay or not whether his partner is transitioning or not ...it wasnt his partner who shot ck it was the maga born and bred young man who was immersed in gun culture. It doesn't exactly absolve the magas from.responsi elite despite what they would like you to believe.

For perspective republicans are gay and trans too. The rnc regularly crashes grinder when in town, they just like to pretend they're not gay .

So you're claiming the FBI is corrupt and does what the President of the day wants? That's conspiracy theorist nutter stuff.

ThatBlackCat · 16/09/2025 01:48

Tinytimmy123 · 15/09/2025 13:32

Gullible im not. 😃

Release the epstein files, his name is all over them, he even signed the birthday card. The desperation to deflect is hanging out of him.

What does any of that have to do with this? Sorry but you do sound gullible and rather taken with conspiracies.

TempestTost · 16/09/2025 01:50

Namitynamename · 15/09/2025 22:33

I think that teenagers and people in their earlier twenties have always had a tendancy to be a bit nihilistic/ironic/wanting to destroy the system though. Young men maybe more than younger women. So it's hard working out what is normal "lostness" and what's part of a new trend.

It's also concerning because clearly social atomisation, loss of community etc would be a factor in male loneliness (which is a serious problem) and you would think in the rise in nihilistic beliefs. But Kirk's killer was on the surface at least raised in a traditional two parent household, within a faith which as a previous poster said actually has a strong emphasis on community support. He was close enough to his father to confide in him and his father was enough of a responsible adult to talk to turn him in (along with his pastor). So presumably well adjusted male role models as far as we know. And he had friends in the real world even if those friends were in the same online subcultures as him. Everything most commentators said is needed.

Like you said a chasm.

Lots of us here though have had daughters sucked into the GI stuff, in a more typically female way. Those with less support may be more at risk, but it's not all about that.

There have been boys who end up living in their parents basements playing video games for a few decades - the brother of someone I know was like this 25 years ago - lovely family, two caring parents, nice community.

I think it is true that boys need to push back at something. And often that something is authority, it seems to be a big part of the adolescent male experience to need to both push against it, but also find and accept legitimate social authority and find their own place and role.

It's been a problem for a while, maybe since the extension of adolescence in the 20th centur and the creation of the teenager. But it's much worse now with an extended childhood, often well into the 20s, and the online world is there to put out all kinds of crazy ideas and love bombing, and gaming has changed in a way that makes it severely and deliberately addictive.

It's not good.

TempestTost · 16/09/2025 01:57

SionnachRuadh · 15/09/2025 19:50

Utah is weirdly contradictory in this sense. It's got that frontier culture, but the LDS church also has a very extensive welfare system, whose origins go back to Joseph Smith in the 19th century, but they really rolled it out during the Great Depression. If you're in difficulties the church social safety net is often more helpful than the government social safety net, though they do expect you to make an effort to improve your own situation.

It's the kind of system Frank Field might have approved of.

I would argue that conservatism is in fact as collectivist as some kinds of leftism - the grassroots low level kind, with credit unions and cooperative fish plants and such.

It's fundamentally about differernt sectors of society working together for the whole, with both rights and responsibilities to the other parts.

Neither is particularly big on unfettered capitalism with movement of labour or capital, and both tend to be very tied to place and the land and community.

Both tend to see that there should be laws and social structures to constrain bad human impulses and encourage good ones, both economically and socially.

ThatBlackCat · 16/09/2025 02:21

Tinytimmy123 · 15/09/2025 18:05

Mumsnet seems to have been taken over by hard right Americans obsessed by trans.

There you are with your extreme conspiracy theories again. The majority of us are left wing and are speculating on hard right trans terrorism.

Tinytimmy123 · 16/09/2025 03:11

ThatBlackCat · 16/09/2025 02:21

There you are with your extreme conspiracy theories again. The majority of us are left wing and are speculating on hard right trans terrorism.

It's a shame you aren't more aware of the politics of the moment. It would take too long to explain, and kindly you may need a bit of time to understand it all. Maybe read a little more into and around the subject of gun violence , in particular statistics, trumps links to epstein, why he is so desperate to deflect from epstein and why he needs to exploit this ck situation. Watch a little more diverse media outlets, it will help to broaden your understanding of current affairs. It will be a struggle but I'm sure you'll get there in the end. 🙂

ThatBlackCat · 16/09/2025 03:53

Tinytimmy123 · 16/09/2025 03:11

It's a shame you aren't more aware of the politics of the moment. It would take too long to explain, and kindly you may need a bit of time to understand it all. Maybe read a little more into and around the subject of gun violence , in particular statistics, trumps links to epstein, why he is so desperate to deflect from epstein and why he needs to exploit this ck situation. Watch a little more diverse media outlets, it will help to broaden your understanding of current affairs. It will be a struggle but I'm sure you'll get there in the end. 🙂

What does Epstein have to do with a trans roommate? You sound very unwell.

Tinytimmy123 · 16/09/2025 04:22

Wilful ignorance, look it up , you seem to be suffering from it.
RTFT.

Igneococcus · 16/09/2025 06:30

Why do posters who want us to "educate" ourselves never tell us what sources we should look at? Which "diverse media outlets" is TinyTim talking about?

Merrymouse · 16/09/2025 07:00

Tinytimmy123 · 16/09/2025 03:11

It's a shame you aren't more aware of the politics of the moment. It would take too long to explain, and kindly you may need a bit of time to understand it all. Maybe read a little more into and around the subject of gun violence , in particular statistics, trumps links to epstein, why he is so desperate to deflect from epstein and why he needs to exploit this ck situation. Watch a little more diverse media outlets, it will help to broaden your understanding of current affairs. It will be a struggle but I'm sure you'll get there in the end. 🙂

I think most posters on this thread live in a country where politicians (and princes) don’t survive contact with Epstein.

However, given that Trump has already been held liable for sexual abuse and already has a criminal record, I’m not sure why you think the Epstein files would bring him down

Ate you imagining a resignation? Another impeachment?

JamieCannister · 16/09/2025 07:54

ArabellaSaurus · 15/09/2025 19:26

I thought the main difference between left and right was a large or a small state? The former aims to help everyone, but also requires/forces everyone to be more interdependent. The latter allows people more freedom, but offers less assistance.

That can be larger than economics. Freedom and individuality v equity and community.

Globalism and neoliberalism have pushed the right to be more socially engaged, and the left to be more growth driven.

My rough understanding, anyway.

Large and small state is an economic thing. And I am not sure that is particularly important.

Let us say the UK decides to keep everything the same except to spend 5% of GDP extra on the military... have we become more left wing or right?

To me the size of the estate is relevant, but it's more about the extent to which you support progressive taxation, redistribution and state services for the people (left), and the extent to which you believe in few regulations, more neutral or regressive taxation (like we have now to a large extent) (right).

The right supports the freedom to do what you want more than the left, but the left supports the freedom to live your life without grinding poverty and no access to education or healthcare.

Tinytimmy123 · 16/09/2025 08:20

Igneococcus · 16/09/2025 06:30

Why do posters who want us to "educate" ourselves never tell us what sources we should look at? Which "diverse media outlets" is TinyTim talking about?

Trumps threats restrict free speech on the usual media outlets other than media that wholeheartedly agees with him. Eg fox news Few other mainstream outlets either tackle what is going on at all eg recent anti trump/oligarchy rallies. I went to social media to find the influencers who challenged and agreed with my viewpoints, somewhere in the middle will be the truth. Of course there will be the crackpot theorists , the clearly mad and many many click bait headlines but ultimately you will find the ones who align more with you and what you believe to be more educated viewpoints. To be fair there are still some mainstream news reporters with some credibility I occasionally listen to, but not daily or even weekly. Depends what they're reporting on and if I have the time. I'm not here to advise you exactly who to watch it is your choice, but for me a fantastic resource was youtube.

thirdfiddle · 16/09/2025 08:25

Jamie, I think that is what people mean by large state, not just raw government spending but taxation, services, benefits, more government control not relying on pure market forces (e.g. minimum wages, rent controls, equality laws).

ArabellaSaurus · 16/09/2025 08:25

Educate yourselves!

How?

Youtuuuuuube!

Right you are.

Igneococcus · 16/09/2025 08:29

Tinytimmy123 · 16/09/2025 08:20

Trumps threats restrict free speech on the usual media outlets other than media that wholeheartedly agees with him. Eg fox news Few other mainstream outlets either tackle what is going on at all eg recent anti trump/oligarchy rallies. I went to social media to find the influencers who challenged and agreed with my viewpoints, somewhere in the middle will be the truth. Of course there will be the crackpot theorists , the clearly mad and many many click bait headlines but ultimately you will find the ones who align more with you and what you believe to be more educated viewpoints. To be fair there are still some mainstream news reporters with some credibility I occasionally listen to, but not daily or even weekly. Depends what they're reporting on and if I have the time. I'm not here to advise you exactly who to watch it is your choice, but for me a fantastic resource was youtube.

But what if the people go and find different sources to you and/or draw different conclusions? If you want to make a certain point you need to provide a reference to the source surely, otherwise you have no idea where people go to educate themselves. I've been wondering about this for years, ever since "it's not my job to educate you" became a thing in online discussions. If you don't provide a link/reference to the material you think is useful how do you know people educate themselves in the way you'd like them to?

RedToothBrush · 16/09/2025 08:34

Tinytimmy123 · 16/09/2025 03:11

It's a shame you aren't more aware of the politics of the moment. It would take too long to explain, and kindly you may need a bit of time to understand it all. Maybe read a little more into and around the subject of gun violence , in particular statistics, trumps links to epstein, why he is so desperate to deflect from epstein and why he needs to exploit this ck situation. Watch a little more diverse media outlets, it will help to broaden your understanding of current affairs. It will be a struggle but I'm sure you'll get there in the end. 🙂

Mattteee...

.... Get off Fox News before you lecture me on widening my media content because Id put money that I read more shite across the political spectrum and from different sources than most and I've made a point of suggesting people read more from 'the other side' for many years on here.

You are still talking shite.

LeaningOnTheEverlastingArms · 16/09/2025 08:34

RedToothBrush · 15/09/2025 20:09

Incels are regarded as right wing.
Black pill nihilism is regarded as largely right wing.

But transcels are a sub set of incels, but it's hard to argue they are rightwing for obvious reasons.

A transcels who swallowed black pill nihilism would look a lot like Tyler Robinson in theory.

One of the problems here is transcelism isn't being recognised in the way it should be. We see it every day on MN. Not terrorism level but certainly manifesting in a problematic way. It's widespread.

Tyler Robinson loves memes. This is meme culture and the world of 4chan so we know he's likely to have come across black pill nihilism.

4chan culture takes the piss out of everything and it aims to push boundaries and shock and then deny it as some kind of plausible deniably as a 'joke'. So posing as a right wing meme doesn't necessarily mean he's right wing. You need to know the context and his target audience or whether he was taking the piss out of someone. It's deliberately difficult for outsiders to comprehend.

Arguably someone who has come from a strong gun culture where the idea of self defence against tyranny is a prime candidate to look upon the establish as tyranny and to decide it's legitimate to take up arms in a way that someone from the UK wouldn't.

I think our desperate need to box him into left and right neatly is very much part of the problem here.

For me it's highly likely he has influences from across the political spectrum.

His family and those who associated with him all say he’s very left wing and hates Christians and conservatives. They would know him best.

RedToothBrush · 16/09/2025 08:36

Igneococcus · 16/09/2025 06:30

Why do posters who want us to "educate" ourselves never tell us what sources we should look at? Which "diverse media outlets" is TinyTim talking about?

Watching YouTube and Fox news is not having a diverse input of news.

RedToothBrush · 16/09/2025 08:37

LeaningOnTheEverlastingArms · 16/09/2025 08:34

His family and those who associated with him all say he’s very left wing and hates Christians and conservatives. They would know him best.

You are deliberately missing my point.

He clearly has right wing influence even if he's left wing now BECAUSE OF HIS FAMILY UPBRINGING.

You can never escape where you come from and how it shapes you.

LeaningOnTheEverlastingArms · 16/09/2025 08:39

RedToothBrush · 16/09/2025 08:37

You are deliberately missing my point.

He clearly has right wing influence even if he's left wing now BECAUSE OF HIS FAMILY UPBRINGING.

You can never escape where you come from and how it shapes you.

How interesting that you think you know my intentions. Are you a mind reader now too? 🤔

RedToothBrush · 16/09/2025 08:41

LeaningOnTheEverlastingArms · 16/09/2025 08:39

How interesting that you think you know my intentions. Are you a mind reader now too? 🤔

You are clearly on an agenda and I will not be engaging with you further.

Tinytimmy123 · 16/09/2025 08:55

Merrymouse · 16/09/2025 07:00

I think most posters on this thread live in a country where politicians (and princes) don’t survive contact with Epstein.

However, given that Trump has already been held liable for sexual abuse and already has a criminal record, I’m not sure why you think the Epstein files would bring him down

Ate you imagining a resignation? Another impeachment?

Trump will never resign, only if he became very unwell and unable to function. Impeachment from what I can see has absolutely no merit given it has not curtailed his disregard for the rule of law whatsoever.
My feeling is that whatever is in the epstein files must be very very bad for him to be SO resistant to releasing them.He knows that even his base could potentially take a dim view of the depraved antics of epstein and trump. While he will always have his loyalists no matter what, he knows alot of his base would struggle if his antics were particularly bad. Therefore the midterms could take a hard hit , even with his gerrymandering, and that would be abhorrent to him, a lame duck president with the potential to be impeached and possibly legally challenged due to all his illegality.

On a basic level it's saving face, no sullying his 'reputation' ( in his eyes anyway) getting his nobel peace prize, plastering his face everywhere with paintings, head busts, renaming buildings/institutions with his name, and building edifices that will leave his greasy mark, all while grifting billions of dollars for himself and his family. He has to keep the oligarchs happy so he will ensure the policies that enrich them further will continue. Stephen Miller will ethnically cleanse the country and the man on the street will struggle to bring home a working wage. Project 2025 having removed all workers rights . As for womens rights well there won't be many.

The release of the epstein files might bring some justice for the women affected . Trumps name is all over the files and it isn't because he bumped into Jeffrey in a coffee shop. The old goat might die before the end of his presidency but the justice will be that his position in history will be a more honest reflection of the kind of 'man' he really is.

Yep I don't like him 😐 😆

TheUnusuallyQuerulentMxLauraBrown · 16/09/2025 09:04

Igneococcus · 16/09/2025 06:30

Why do posters who want us to "educate" ourselves never tell us what sources we should look at? Which "diverse media outlets" is TinyTim talking about?

It’s a very 2017 TRA phase!

I was told to ‘educate myself’ about sex & gender, so I did, and found out I’m a terf!