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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
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49
TwoLoonsAndASprout · 15/09/2025 19:30

Anactor · 15/09/2025 18:22

We’re actually alien invaders. We’re ’obsessed’ by trans because all the hormone trans people take allow them to see our true forms.

Damn, there are some days when I really miss the laugh reaction!

NotMyNigelFarage · 15/09/2025 19:35

JamieCannister · 15/09/2025 18:18

Because they asked nicely?

[Sorry, dreadful joke]

My new girlfriend said "A small penis shouldn't be a problem in a loving relationship". I still wish she didn't have one though.

Merrymouse · 15/09/2025 19:44

ArabellaSaurus · 15/09/2025 19:26

I thought the main difference between left and right was a large or a small state? The former aims to help everyone, but also requires/forces everyone to be more interdependent. The latter allows people more freedom, but offers less assistance.

That can be larger than economics. Freedom and individuality v equity and community.

Globalism and neoliberalism have pushed the right to be more socially engaged, and the left to be more growth driven.

My rough understanding, anyway.

I agree about large state/small state, but far right and far left systems tend to be equally authoritarian.

I think the American dream is to load up your wagon and find some land and escape government, but if you take that to it's extreme you just have anarchy - or maybe feudalism?

SionnachRuadh · 15/09/2025 19:50

Merrymouse · 15/09/2025 19:44

I agree about large state/small state, but far right and far left systems tend to be equally authoritarian.

I think the American dream is to load up your wagon and find some land and escape government, but if you take that to it's extreme you just have anarchy - or maybe feudalism?

Utah is weirdly contradictory in this sense. It's got that frontier culture, but the LDS church also has a very extensive welfare system, whose origins go back to Joseph Smith in the 19th century, but they really rolled it out during the Great Depression. If you're in difficulties the church social safety net is often more helpful than the government social safety net, though they do expect you to make an effort to improve your own situation.

It's the kind of system Frank Field might have approved of.

RedToothBrush · 15/09/2025 20:09

Ereshkigalangcleg · 15/09/2025 17:47

I agree. Anecdotally I’ve seen a lot of trans identified males on social media who say they were MRAs (I imagine the incel type) before they transitioned and “became feminists” 🙄

Incels are regarded as right wing.
Black pill nihilism is regarded as largely right wing.

But transcels are a sub set of incels, but it's hard to argue they are rightwing for obvious reasons.

A transcels who swallowed black pill nihilism would look a lot like Tyler Robinson in theory.

One of the problems here is transcelism isn't being recognised in the way it should be. We see it every day on MN. Not terrorism level but certainly manifesting in a problematic way. It's widespread.

Tyler Robinson loves memes. This is meme culture and the world of 4chan so we know he's likely to have come across black pill nihilism.

4chan culture takes the piss out of everything and it aims to push boundaries and shock and then deny it as some kind of plausible deniably as a 'joke'. So posing as a right wing meme doesn't necessarily mean he's right wing. You need to know the context and his target audience or whether he was taking the piss out of someone. It's deliberately difficult for outsiders to comprehend.

Arguably someone who has come from a strong gun culture where the idea of self defence against tyranny is a prime candidate to look upon the establish as tyranny and to decide it's legitimate to take up arms in a way that someone from the UK wouldn't.

I think our desperate need to box him into left and right neatly is very much part of the problem here.

For me it's highly likely he has influences from across the political spectrum.

thatsthewayitis · 15/09/2025 20:21

Well the talk is the FBI is looking into the members of the antifa-trans-furry group.
I don't know any public conservative trans furry groups, so disagree.

GoldThumb · 15/09/2025 20:23

ConcernedFarther · 15/09/2025 15:20

I think the reason the transgender partner was brought up is because he, the killer had carved trans-ideology quotes onto the cartridges, he had been radicalised in a school/ college and through living with a trans identifying partner.

And he fired then gun right after a question on trans shooters

SionnachRuadh · 15/09/2025 20:28

Gotta say though, the idea of an assassin linked to the furry community sounds like something out of a John Waters movie. And not one of the good ones.

Strange times.

OneAmberFinch · 15/09/2025 20:29

Not exactly left vs right, but I usually think of the division between the two "visions" outlined by Thomas Sowell in A Conflict of Visions - either idealistic or constrained ideas of human nature.

I don't always think of myself as having "moved from the left to the right" but certainly I do think I've moved from an idealistic worldview (where you sit down with a blank paper and design a society) to a constrained one (where you become comfortable with a bit of hodgepodge and exceptions because humans are messy and the rules for rubbing along nicely together are also messy).

Anyway, why did Marx only drink herbal infusions?

Because property is theft...

SionnachRuadh · 15/09/2025 20:33

Yeah, I've definitely moved to a view of a constrained society where we have to learn to be comfortable with tradeoffs and messy compromises.

Partly it's having been close to political decision making in a professional capacity, which has taught me:

  • that policy problem that all your friends think is really simple, actually has all sorts of complex difficulties
  • the next lot of ministers are probably not going to be better at handling long term problems than the current lot

It could make you very cynical, but I like to think I'm just a realist.

I've departed from left wing politics because most leftism never gets beyond the stage of loudly demanding cutted up pear.

Namitynamename · 15/09/2025 20:47

OneAmberFinch · 15/09/2025 20:29

Not exactly left vs right, but I usually think of the division between the two "visions" outlined by Thomas Sowell in A Conflict of Visions - either idealistic or constrained ideas of human nature.

I don't always think of myself as having "moved from the left to the right" but certainly I do think I've moved from an idealistic worldview (where you sit down with a blank paper and design a society) to a constrained one (where you become comfortable with a bit of hodgepodge and exceptions because humans are messy and the rules for rubbing along nicely together are also messy).

Anyway, why did Marx only drink herbal infusions?

Because property is theft...

I don't think that fudging things is particularly right wing. Make do and muddle is a very traditional British way of doing things that predates the French Revolution even. What gets me a bit is when people complain about the idealism of the left (fair) but then continue to call for very simple solutions to complex problems. I guess I don't get why Nigel Farage is allowed to be unrealistic.
Actually I probably have moved further to the lefty. I don't think I have utopian ideals. But things have been getting steadily worse since 2008 and I don't think it's sustainable. Either there is some radical new thinking (not to fix all the problems no-one can but to address the big ones) or you will get extremists elected. I just don't think that the housing situation etc can continue indefinitely and blaming immigrants won't fix it so we will keep having to find other bogeymen until an actual answer comes along. It would be better to start thinking of answers now.

TheUnusuallyQuerulentMxLauraBrown · 15/09/2025 20:51

From Andy Ngo’s digging, ‘Luna’ has been trans for less than a year, so may well be mostly ‘boymoding’ IRL and the female persona exists largely via character creation in video games and the odd filtered selfie.

That would explain why the neighbours at the apartment block said Lance didn’t look trans and how Lance’s family knew he was ‘transitioning’ but didn’t have a new name for him.

All of the ROGD parenting groups and forums are full of parents of late teen boys/young men like this, they announce they are transitioning and then continue to look and act in exactly the same way they always did (locking themselves in their bedrooms to play video games).
They convince themselves that if they inject hooky estrogen for a couple of years they will be able to effortlessly pass as biologically female humans.

It seems to be a very online-era specific, newly emergent version of AGP. They often identify as lesbians but are either celibate or in homosexual relationships with other men (who also identify as women). Makes you wonder if Tyler also had transition ambition but hadn’t gone public with it yet.

Namitynamename · 15/09/2025 20:52

Ironically Thomas Sowell was a fan of the Reaganism/classic conservatism that a lot of the Trump/MAGA voters are actually repudiating. Don't get me wrong I would find Sowell way more palatable than Trump. But his "constrained" vision has been replaced by an idealistic/nihilistic one. You need balance between wild idealism and a sort of stodgy "can't be helped put up with it".

RNApolymerase · 15/09/2025 20:59

Interesting that the BBC article on this story has changed. Earlier this evening it had "roommate and partner, who was said to be transgender" (or similar, I didn't copy it) was helping with the investigation - now it just says
"Cox added that Mr Robinson's roommate and partner had been helping with the investigation."

They've edited out the transgender reference since earlier on.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c203qgn61geo

wast542 · 15/09/2025 21:34

Darker · 14/09/2025 08:15

I don’t see the point of this post.

Because it was one of the talking points in Charlie’s debates. School shooters having strong links to trans community

SionnachRuadh · 15/09/2025 21:45

wast542 · 15/09/2025 21:34

Because it was one of the talking points in Charlie’s debates. School shooters having strong links to trans community

Trans or trans-adjacent shooters are a recent trend and there haven't (thankfully) been very many of them, but they're a noticeable trend.

I'm old enough to remember when there were Senate hearings because of a handful of teen suicides that distraught parents thought might have been linked to Ozzy Osbourne records. There's more of a factual basis for this trend, but mysteriously few people want to talk about it.

LuckySpark · 15/09/2025 21:53

SionnachRuadh · 15/09/2025 19:50

Utah is weirdly contradictory in this sense. It's got that frontier culture, but the LDS church also has a very extensive welfare system, whose origins go back to Joseph Smith in the 19th century, but they really rolled it out during the Great Depression. If you're in difficulties the church social safety net is often more helpful than the government social safety net, though they do expect you to make an effort to improve your own situation.

It's the kind of system Frank Field might have approved of.

A social model, where communities organise support for their community (rather than it being government led) is the common way that people on the right think welfare should be provided. It has pros and cons when compared with the central government model.

SionnachRuadh · 15/09/2025 21:58

Good grief. St George has a reputation for being quite a sleepy place. There's the polygamist cult colony at Short Creek not too far away, but that's an insular community that doesn't interact with the city except when they have to send the cops in.

It's about the last place on earth I'd expect to find gun-toting TIMs. What are they putting in the water there?

TheUnusuallyQuerulentMxLauraBrown · 15/09/2025 22:02

More on Mia/Colin Bailey, sounds like a right peach:

www.abc4.com/news/southern-utah/mia-bailey-pleads-not-guilty/

Merrymouse · 15/09/2025 22:06

Igneococcus · 15/09/2025 21:06

“Post-political” and “anti-system” are the terms bandied about. To interpret such politics as “left” or “right” reflects a 20th-century mindset largely irrelevant to the infinitely fractured, infinitely ironised online world of trolls and attention seekers in which such malice incubates. These are men whose motivations have no discernible theme other than loathing of the system, a love of chaos and a lust for attention.

————-

Nihilists kick at the pillars of our civilisation because they can’t ever quite believe the roof will fall in. Such is the consequence-free unreality of those who spend their life in the virtual worlds of video games and social media.

I think this is a good analysis of the likely nature of their political engagement.

There does seem to have been a chasm between their on line interactions and the reality of their lives - living in a family flat, attending family dinner, still living in Utah.

Namitynamename · 15/09/2025 22:33

I think that teenagers and people in their earlier twenties have always had a tendancy to be a bit nihilistic/ironic/wanting to destroy the system though. Young men maybe more than younger women. So it's hard working out what is normal "lostness" and what's part of a new trend.

It's also concerning because clearly social atomisation, loss of community etc would be a factor in male loneliness (which is a serious problem) and you would think in the rise in nihilistic beliefs. But Kirk's killer was on the surface at least raised in a traditional two parent household, within a faith which as a previous poster said actually has a strong emphasis on community support. He was close enough to his father to confide in him and his father was enough of a responsible adult to talk to turn him in (along with his pastor). So presumably well adjusted male role models as far as we know. And he had friends in the real world even if those friends were in the same online subcultures as him. Everything most commentators said is needed.

Like you said a chasm.