Charlie Kirk shot during a debate about trans people

[feministmom4ever]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15086277/Charlie-Kirks-final-words-assassinated-Utah-dead.html

I didn’t agree with many of his political views, but I liked how he interacted with college students who couldn’t answer the question “what is a woman?”.

I’ve criticised the way White Feminism focuses on the trans thing to the exclusion of virtually everything else.

And in doing so displaying a rather patronising attitude to all the non-white women who also quite like to have words to defend women's rights.

No, that’s not what I said.

What I said is that treating single sex spaces as THE fundamental issue while minimising or ignoring racism is textbook White Feminism.

Trying to frame it as me saying only white women need single sex spaces is a straw man.

For many of us black rape survivors, it IS the most fundamental issue. So you can take your 'White' Feminism slur and your racism and go away.

You’ve misunderstood (or chosen to).

White feminism doesn’t mean “all white women” or that I know your race.

It means centring feminism around the issues that affect white women most, while treating racism as secondary.

That’s what your comment illustrated.

Single sex spaces is not THE fundamental issue.

You can argue the toss about when spaces should and shouldn't be single sex, and I'm sure feminists will continue to do so. There was quite a furore when Corbyn suggested single sex trains carriages a few years ago.

I hope you don't mind if I put this next bit in caps, because it really is the fundamental issue.

YOU CAN'T PROTECT WOMEN'S RIGHTS IF YOU CAN'T EXPLAIN WHAT A WOMAN IS.

We still know very little about the Pennsylvania shooter from a year ago. His online activity seems to have been politically all over the place, and kids who were his contemporaries at school barely remembered him. All the indications are that he was just a depressive incel who hated his life and saw the opportunity to make himself famous with a Grand Gesture, even if he got killed doing it.

If you think access to safe single sex toilets affects white women the most, more than black women, you're beyond brainwashed with racism.

Edit: black women like myself don't appreciate you weaponising our race/skin colour. It's racist and demeaning and offensive. Please stop it. We are not your tool or weapon to attack white women with.

Is he wrong? Communism has killed more people than the Nazis.

I completely condemn this murder, and I think any death by shooting is totally unacceptable. The only person I know of who thought shooting deaths could be acceptable was Charlie Kirk.

Just seen your edit.

I can see this has been twisted into claims I never made. I won’t keep engaging on bad-faith straw men. My point was simply that feminism that minimises racism while centring only one issue is White Feminism. I stand by that.

Are you suggesting that Kirk was similar to Tate? I don't know a huge amount about either of them, so I may be wrong, but my impression is of very different men with considerable differences of viewpoint. I would have been reasonably happy for my son to listen to Kirk's opinions, which he would always have disagreed with, but very worried if he listened to Tate. I think there is a big difference between Kirk's conservative views on women's place in society and Tate's complete contempt for women.

it sounds like he was active on discord.

Ive never been on the place but who knows what alternative ideas of the world are generated there. It’s certainly where a lot of people say they were led into trans genderism

There is no feminism on this thread that "minimises racism". You are posting in bad faith now.

It could equally be called 'privileged feminism' really because that's the suggested dynamic.

Yes, like a couple of weeks ago, no?

Wheeling out phrases like 'white feminism' is rather redundant on a board where you don't know anyone's race.

People are focussing on the brutal murder and general callous nature of online political discourse. It’s not up to you to decide they should be discussing what you want them to.

Nothing alike IMO

Literally.
Very recently

No, I’m not.

I have a different opinion and perspective to you and seemingly most of the people on this thread.

This does not equal bad faith.

With regards to the minimisation of racism, I explained exactly what I meant by that, a few pages back.

Which was that Charlie Kirk’s white supremacist activism has been mostly brushed aside by the feminists on this thread. Because he was “kind” and “polite” while expressing his anti black views and he held the correct opinions re gender ideology.

There are a bunch of online spaces that are like this. Someone - Helen Joyce probably - was saying that there's an element of kids raising kids online and their parents not knowing what's happening.

For girls I think it's certain Tumblr or Reddit communities, since they've cracked down on the anorexia ones it's been trans and more recently spoonie communities.

For boys it seems to be porn, gaming or weird political subcultures, and with the political/cultural side it's a random throw of the dice whether they become wannabe fascists or wannabe communists or Andrew Tate followers or they pretend to convert to Greek Orthodoxy and start banging on about reconquering Constantinople. Any ideology will do if you can make it edgy enough.

This was one of the issues with Rudakabana, wasn't it, he'd been referred to Prevent multiple times but they couldn't deal with him because he didn't have a consistent ideology. In today's online world, trying to clamp down on specific ideologies starts to look like a very Tony Blair era analogue solution.

It’s a thought terminating cliche. And stating “I’m a middle class white woman” before berating other women for their “white feminism” because they would rather focus on the brutal murder rather than performatively denounce someone they maybe don’t know much about and haven’t the time to research, is epic cringe.

In today's online world, trying to clamp down on specific ideologies starts to look like a very Tony Blair era analogue solution.

Very much agree.

Yes, I don’t know what the answer is. I find it deeply disturbing how desensitised people are to violence.