Women’s privacy and dignity

[Mrspenguinsschoolforfreaks]

I’ve just been to my local leisure centre swimming pool and while I was in the changing rooms a woman walked in from the showers, fully naked. I averted my eyes, and she walked quite close past me in a way which to me (and I fully accept I may well have imagined it) felt a bit pointed. I felt vaguely uncomfortable and embarrassed in the same way I would have if a man had walked in naked.

My impression is that the vast majority of people on this forum believe that it is a fundamental breach of women’s privacy and dignity if people with male biology (whether cisgender men or trans women) share changing facilities with women. Yet they do not consider that it undermines a woman’s privacy or dignity to have to get changed in front of other women, or to see other women naked.

I understand that many women have had experiences with men’s exhibitionist or voyeuristic behaviour which makes them specifically uncomfortable being undressed around men, or being around men who are undressed. But I’ve often seen the argument on here that it equally undermines men’s privacy and dignity to have to share changing facilities with women.

So my question is, do you think privacy and dignity are not infringed by having to get changed in front of people of the same sex? If not, why not?

So you are thinking about sex when you go to change after swimming.

And you are projecting your sexualised thoughts onto a woman?

I’m still not understanding why this thread is in Feminism Sex and Gender. You do you OP. But most women prefer single sex spaces, free from men.

It would be better as an AIBU really. “AIBU to not understand why most other women are more uncomfortable with men around when they are getting changed, than women?”

It's an interesting question but not very relevant to having men in the women's. Some parents prefer swimming pools with single cubicles rather than have boys in the men's.

You are not trying to have a discussion at most you are talking at people.

You are being very judgemental of the woman involved.

I averted my eyes, and she walked quite close past me in a way which to me felt a bit pointed.

You made yourself the Lead Actor in her story you added in the "agressiveness" and framed the whole encounter around her action being a sexual one as a passive agressive non-contact sexual assault.

You may wish to and can try to roll the first post back but that is the framework you asked to be judged by when discussing privacy and dignity.

You pop in to read and talk at people and cant offer any evidence of you trying to work out what privacy or dignity mean to you.

You are happy to suggest that men should be allowed to be naked in a open mixed sex changing area when you yourself say you sexualise the women around you and every time you visit you are using a single occupancy changing room.

You can write a lot about the situation but cant analyise or begin to breakdown what motivations you has when framing the events from your perspective. So somehow you cant work out if changing with women is a problem for you (or not).

Well my bingo card is getting full.

There's so really off red flag posts in this thread.

It's alarming.

So many things 🚩 which make me go hummmm.

My ‘theory’ is that you’re a man and you’re fishing for information, for what reason is unclear. I find your posts disingenuous and your replies are, as another poster said, deliberately vague.

I don’t know any women who would say that a man being naked in a changing room wouldn’t significantly bother them more than a woman being naked in a changing room. Only a man would think that because he sees no real danger in it.

They are somehow managing to get perfectly reasonable posts deleted too.

My guess it that may have been a " new helpful friend " when it clearly highlighted issues around the framing of the argument.

@AnSolas YY.

There's no theory. Attempts at smearing innuendo at commenters that raise contradictions in gender critical ideology are part of the MO here & its done by an organised mob. It's designed to discredit views that threaten their world view. Nothing personal here, they just don't see this forum as a place for discussion, rather a propaganda vehicle & anyone 'questioning' inconsistencies are the enemy to be driven out lest they should persuade the unsuspecting of their flaws in rationale.

What's particularly ironical is it's all done under the guise of 'feminism' & yet women who don't toe the GC line are slurred as predatory men whose main purpose is only access to abuse women.

The 'anti stereotype' people it appears think that women are or should be a monolith. They are effectively as authoritarian as the Patriarchy in terms of a woman's right to think for herself & as such a threat to the principles of feminism & social cohesion.

It’s always a difficult one but I hope I just relay my message and some of it sticks.

I was in a venue that was promoted as ‘trans-friendly’ so checked out the ‘gender-neutral’ loos. They were in a totally unsuitable out-of-the-way location and a very dangerous design where you wouldn’t be able to see, hear or access an occupant in trouble. They had a sign saying ‘do not use drugs in these toilets’. These toilets are not ‘friendly’. Given the venue, I had in my head the tag-line ‘in [this] space, no one can hear you scream’.

Anyone using the term cis probably isn't

Somewhat hyperbolic

As sure as night follows day that one was going to appear.

Minimising much? What women are accustomed to when they rear their heads I suppose…

I've been on many threads here where it's exactly the same 'routine' with a multitude of mod deletions to prove it by the usual suspects. And I'm not talking about hostile (which is fine for me, I'm a big girl), I'm talking about the worst of straight up personal abuse that shifts to innuendo when they can't get away it.

The shame is there aren't many online forums where women's issues are discussed & to have them degenerate in this way is disappointing.

Women not performing to your requirements? Shame.

This is so.

It is really stark when you see a poster refer to young women 'whoring' around, while declaring that they are a feminist and want to constructively discuss the needs of women and girls. Using MRA arguments and links. All while telling women how much they much hate trans people because they don't want to share single sex spaces with male people.

Just like an OP who doesn't realise just how judgemental their posts are towards a woman that they have attributed motivations to which seem to be based more on their own motivations than anything else. But again, posted with the question of why should women have single sex spaces as if this scenario will surely convince others that we may as well get rid of any female single sex spaces and just have uni sex spaces from now.

Women not wanting men prowling round their changing rooms are a “mob” 🙄. Ok then

Dont forget to add some smears about older.women and lesbians, suggesting they are sexually predatory as a group, body shaming them, and trying to suggest SWAJAB (some women are just as bad).

In the context of 99% of sexual assaults being perpetrated by males: no, they're fucking not.

This thread is full on MRA isn't it?

"whoring' around,"

You say that like it's a bad thing…..😂

You don't seem to be with the times where ironically taking ownership of derogatory terms like black people do for the 'n' word or women do for 'bitch'.

Or maybe you do & this is another cheap attempt at discrediting.

Using MRA arguments and links = anything that threatens my worldview

"All while telling women how much they much hate trans people because they don't want to share single sex spaces with male people."

When on the ropes? Strawman…

"But again, posted with the question of why should women have single sex spaces as if this scenario will surely convince others that we may as well get rid of any female single sex spaces and just have uni sex spaces from now."

The sound of someone who doesn't understand that the consequences of women's choices aren't always a zero sum gain…or doesn't care.

And like clock work the Motte Bailey…

Imagine the shamelessness that's required here when the thread evidently has a loads of slurry accusations from multiple posters.