Women’s privacy and dignity

[Mrspenguinsschoolforfreaks]

I’ve just been to my local leisure centre swimming pool and while I was in the changing rooms a woman walked in from the showers, fully naked. I averted my eyes, and she walked quite close past me in a way which to me (and I fully accept I may well have imagined it) felt a bit pointed. I felt vaguely uncomfortable and embarrassed in the same way I would have if a man had walked in naked.

My impression is that the vast majority of people on this forum believe that it is a fundamental breach of women’s privacy and dignity if people with male biology (whether cisgender men or trans women) share changing facilities with women. Yet they do not consider that it undermines a woman’s privacy or dignity to have to get changed in front of other women, or to see other women naked.

I understand that many women have had experiences with men’s exhibitionist or voyeuristic behaviour which makes them specifically uncomfortable being undressed around men, or being around men who are undressed. But I’ve often seen the argument on here that it equally undermines men’s privacy and dignity to have to share changing facilities with women.

So my question is, do you think privacy and dignity are not infringed by having to get changed in front of people of the same sex? If not, why not?

Only a male supremacist would claim a man's wellbeing and preference matters more than that of women's.

Well y'know, trancels gonna trancel

😂

‘"The graphic also maliciously misgenders trans women by calling them “men who identify as women”.

Sad, sad times, for the saddest of men.

Surely this Allsop blogger/mansplainer can't genuinely be so thick as not to understand the concept of per capita? More likely he’s being disingenuous.

The data correlated with other findings so irrelevant.

"The ONS is standing by its overall estimate, released in January, that one in 200 people aged over 16 are trans. Its director of population statistics, Jen Woolford, declared “confidence in our gender identity estimates at a national level”. Woolford said the estimates broadly tallied with surveys by GPs.

Robbie de Santos, Stonewall’s director of external affairs, said: “The current figures for the trans population are in step with comparable estimates in other nations, such as Canada who included a similar question in their 2021 census.”
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/nov/08/census-records-trans-population-in-england-and-wales-but-accuracy-is-doubted

The data is complete bollocks, as women’s groups warned the ONS it would be 😂

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no etc...

Robbie de Santos, Stonewall’s director

Stonewall! pmsl. Just when I thought you couldn't make a bigger fool of yourself.

You’ll have to try harder with your googling techniques mate, maybe there’s a YouTube tutorial you can follow?

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/sep/12/official-estimate-trans-population-england-wales-ons

This has already been done upthread. If you have the police incident numbers that dispute my claim from the the UK government please share.

Official figures estimating the number of transgender people in England and Wales have been stripped of their accredited status after an investigation found that too many people misunderstood the 2021 census question.
In an embarrassing setback, the Office for National Statistics has requested a reclassification of the finding that there were 262,000 trans people in England and Wales on census day, equivalent to 0.55% of the population.

Readers note:

For safeguarding risk assessment the correct comparison is for sex and violent crime at a minimum. What has been posted is not broken down into sex crime or violent crime, it refers to over all crime numbers.

It is not as meaningful for analysing the safety risk for allowing some male people into female single sex spaces as getting the information relating directly to sex and violent crime.

In saying that, please note that even with general criminality rates of people with transgender identities, there is a clear distinction between male and female offending.

'the trans prison population is 84% trans women and 16% trans men.'

vs

'96% of the cisgender prison population is male and 4% female'

Meaning that male people with transgender identities still commit crimes generally following the 'male pattern'. That being at a much higher rate compared to female people.

This posted link and the data behind that does show that male people will retain the male pattern of criminality rather than anything like the female pattern of criminality.

If safeguarding risk was analysed on these statistics, with no break down of sex and violence offences available, the safeguarding risk would still be that female people should have single sex spaces that did not include any male people at all.

I never said that was the link. Its a blog that explains why the data in the graphs is problematic. The research link regarding Translucent in mentioned in the article.

Please provide police data from UK government confirming your claim.

@Howseitgoin What part of "women have the right to penis free spaces" are you struggling to understand?

Even if the data didn't support the need for sex (NOT "gender") segregated spaces, which it does, the fact that we say no should still be a good enough answer.

I don’t want a man in a space where there is a legal single sex exemption that means it’s a women only space.

I say no. I do not consent to a man in that space.

What part of that do you have a problem with?

Your “research” is null and void as it overestimates the number of “trans people” and extrapolates the conclusion from that they are not over represented, The overall data giving the number of “trans people” has been downgraded as unreliable by the ONS as I have demonstrated. The figures for “trans women” and “trans men” are much more reliable. I think 48k each. So the proportion in the prison system is in fact higher.

The reasons for the population of “trans men” being disproportionate to the population of women as a whole probably reflects the mental health comorbidities of women who identify as “trans”.

Also as pp pointed out, sex matters occasionally to Translucent as it states that “trans men” “nearly always elect to be housed in the female estate”. Why is that, do you think?

No it doesn't & never can because like any data regarding trans people there isn't enough of them to make a statistical conclusion. Same with lesbians that sexually assault women.

And no less than a high court judge ruled on this very matter of data when it came to trans prisoners.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jul/02/trans-women-with-sex-offence-convictions-in-female-jails-lawful-rules-judge

"Between 2016 and 2019, a total of 97 sexual assaults were recorded in women’s prisons, of which seven appeared to be committed by transgender prisoners without a GRC. It is not known whether any were committed by transgender women with a GRC but the number of transgender prisoners with a GRC across all jails is thought to be in single figures.

Transgender Americans can choose gender on passport, state department says
Read more
Holroyde said the statistics were too low and had insufficient detail to provide a safe basis for conclusions, adding: “I can accept, at any rate for present purposes, that the unconditional introduction of a transgender woman into the general population of a women’s prison carries a statistically greater risk of sexual assault upon non-transgender prisoners than would be the case if a non-transgender woman were introduced. But that statistical conclusion takes no account of the risk assessment which the policies require.”

Again I’m going to quote Gavin de Becker, in the Gift of Fear.

"'No' is a word that must never be negotiated, because the person who chooses not to hear it is trying to control you".

Old, discredited data. It’s still no.

@Howseitgoin I’ll ask again.

What part of my no do you have a problem with?

The correlating evidence shows the research to be credible.

Have you read the SC ruling from April 2025?

What part of my no do you have a problem with?

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no etc...