teenage girls and middle-aged men

[onlytherain]

I have read a few times here and elsewhere that the two groups with the highest rates of being trans or highest increase in transitioning are teenage girls and middle-aged men. I can only find data for teenage girls. Could someone please point me to data supporting the claim that middle-aged men are a group with high transitioning rates?

The funny thing is that we do see the phenomenon of late onset lesbianism. Many of us know a woman, or several women, who have been in straight relationships all their adult lives, find themselves single at 40, and then much to their own surprise hook up with a woman rather than a man.

I think it's likely these women were latently bi all along, and had just never explored that side of themselves, but if transness were innate we'd expect to see the same thing.

This doesn't apply for men. Show me a man who's been married to a woman for 25 years and suddenly announces that he's gay, and I will show you a man who's been shagging other men the whole time.

It's almost as if the sexes are different.

I would put money on many teenage girls actually having things like undiagnosed adhd/ pmdd.

Also, with transvestism - no man reaches the age of 50 and says "hmm, I've never tried cross dressing, I wonder what it feels like?"

Paraphrasing Helen Joyce, for a certain type of middle aged man, saying to your friends and work colleagues "I always felt I was a woman trapped in a man's body" is much less embarrassing than saying "I started masturbating in my mum's knickers when I was 12 and it all escalated from there, and now I'd like to live my fetish full time."

One of those options will make you a laughing stock, and one will get Ellie from HR writing a blog post on the staff intranet about how stunning and brave you are. (Though Ellie may be privately sniggering at you - the hell of trans identity is that you never know when the cis folx are just being polite to your face)

”If any of that were remotely true we would also be seeing the numbers of middle aged women ‘discovering their true selves’ and adopting a trans identity.”

Try reading it again.

Oh gosh I must have missed this - dare I ask?

Nothing to do with the sexual fetish element reported by many men but no women?

How does ‘wearing what they want’ equate to ‘a disproportionate number of adult/older men adopting a trans identity’?

I’m sort of curious too - o googled but nothing came up other than info about it being an airport.

Google the code for Malaga Airport.

Sometimes I think of celebrity parents - definitely not thinking about anyone in particular - and I wonder if there's such a thing as Malaga by proxy.

Ah thank you 🤣🤣🤣 got it.

Malaga Airport - AGP.

Autogynophile. We often get reported and deleted for using the proper word for it, but I don't see why. It's a fetish, it happens, and it's the sole proviso of creepy men

Further, it's usually the sole proviso of creepy older men

There’s a couple I could imagine that being true of. One may be halfway there already. 😉

actually on reflection, the other one has experienced it in a professional capacity and may have developed an ‘affinity’ for cross dressers.

Because it is easier for a woman to wear typically male clothes without people saying much and definitely not assuming that she doesn't identify as a woman. The same doesnt go for men. They can't wear a dress without it being a big statement. I am in a tracksuit right now and nobody will assume anything about my sexuality or gender identity.

The middle-aged male demographic has something to do with seeing A GP.

I am bothered about what it is about some men which results in paraphilias. Its obviously not all men, but it's enough that they can control the others in society. The normal men don't seem able to say "shut the F up about women's knickers, watching girls at the beach, filming up skirts (no, they've stopped that one), dressing in your mum's, sister's clothes." "Your not b*y stunning and brave, you're nuts, and you know you are."
For one thing, the fetishists are queering normal men's pitch by making women more scared of all men.
Paraphilias do not aid evolution, increasing the likelihood of passing on their DNA, surely. Though keeping quiet about them until mid-life does. Their children must dread what they are going to pass on.
In the case of gays, you can argue that the inheritance of the primitive group was aided, as in wolves and meercats, by having adults not involved in reproduction, but supporting the family's survival. I'm blowed of I can see a way this bunch of males can benefit any society.
Can you imagine a bunch of early humans putting up with "I'm a girl, but I'm not coming digging roots as it will break my nails, I'm not going to process skins, it will damage my teeth,"? "I'm going to lol about waiting for the invention of lippy, swirly skirts and stilettos." Doesn't work. Living as a woman was hard work up till the last century. What were these men doing then? (Molly houses, I know, but that's not many of them.)
If it's to do with getting sexual feelings without responding to real opposites, the place to look for the absent cohort of middle aged women transing would be among the women left single in the UK by WWI. There were a lot, and judging by teachers of that generation, maybe a number found their inner lesbian. But were there a lot who actually wanted to be men?
What is it about men? It seems to be something very, very wrong in the development of such men. None of those I know have such characters.

*The builders who worked with Fred West weren't able to call him out on his excessive use of excessive porn, and the contractor wasn't able to say he wasn't suitable to work alone in my sister's house when her husband was away. He apologised afterwards when it all came out. Not a paraphilia, but a case of men not controlling someone who should have been controlled.

It's a very weird thing about male society.

The dating scene is very strange these days. I listen with interest to dating coach Hayley Quinn, who works with both men and women. She's an interesting person - started out as a young women infiltrating the pickup artist scene, then discovered that the customer base for the PUA influencers isn't evil men, it's mostly desperately lonely men who lack the confidence and social skills to approach women.

And that's a problem not only for men - I know many men in middle age who are single and have nothing wrong with them - but also for women, because, and this is probably an ingrained instinct, women will not approach men. Decent men often don't approach women because they're afraid of being #MeToo'd, that leaves the field open for the sleazy and/or desperate men, and then women wonder where all the decent men have gone.

I don't know if there's an easy answer to that. It gets to be a big deal with online dating because if you're identifiably female on the internet, you will encounter the Randyman, and even if the Randyman is low energy - his messages rarely go further than "hey" - he's extremely persistent, and he queers the pitch for any decent man who wants to seriously engage.

My instinct is to say it's a problem for men to sort out, and it is, but I don't know where men would even start. Male spaces online don't seem to work, because they usually end up being taken over by Randymen.

I think you missed the part where these men are repeatedly claiming that they really ARE women.

It’s not just that they want to wear women’s clothes - heck, men in the 70s and 80s managed all sorts of flamboyant, female coded outfits and layers of make up - they claim that it is an innate state that they have ladybrains. Despite maintaining typically male levels of aggression, entitlement and sexual offending.

None of that answers the question as to where the older women adopting a trans identity are?

Men arent as able to be as flexible in their presentation as women. A woman puts kn trousers and nobody assumes she is trying to be a man nowadays. Yet if a man donned a dress, they'd assume he is distancing himself from a female identity and because he is a person, he would assume that, too.

The message we receive is that men don't wear dresses. He hears, "men don't wear dresses, so if you want to, you must not be a man".

Your line of argument raises a number of questions.

1. How does that account for the disproportionate and extreme rise in young girls adopting a trans identity compared with young boys?
2. Are you really saying it’s all about the clothes? Lots of men like wearing women’s clothes - just look at drag queens and stag do’s - they don’t all claim a trans identity though. Lots of men in the 70s were lagged in make up and hairspray - they weren’t trans either.
3. How does that account for the men tho claim to be women but don’t change their appearance at all and wear typical male clothing/hair etc? They’ve gone a bit quiet recently but they’re still out there.

None of your points explain where the missing cohort of middle aged women with a trans identity are. In fact we seem to be getting further away.

I arrived on MN wanting to know where all the middle aged women with trans identities were. Tbf I was pretty sure they weren't hiding anywhere and whatever was going on with girls it had nothing to do with TiM except that they were pushing it. Ah, nostalgia. It's not what it used to be.

Your point raises the question of why they don't just wear what they like, advocate for it, dobit - but without claiming to be women or using women's toilets.

Look at Harry Styles for example. Why not copy him - wear dresses, make up etc?

Um no.

Read the research in full it shows middle aged women identifying as trans in the graphs.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/26895269.2025.2503221

1. I think teenage girls might be more likely to ID as NB over trans man. Probably because they have been forced to see a model of woman that they want no part of from their families and communities. That goes for both NB IDing girls and trans identifying girls. I remember reading one teen like this saying her mother seems neurotic, stressed, unhappy and generally fraught and she associates that persona with being a woman and a mother. She doesn't want to be that person and doesn't resonate with the aspirations and ideals of the women around her. So in her mind, she must be like dad who is basically the opposite as in, she must be male too. (Parents were divorced).

This shows that women are a tiny proportion of older people (over 40, and particularly over 50) identifying as trans, but women/girls are the majority in the 10-19 age group and only slightly lower in number than men in the 20-29 age group. At all ages over 30, men dominate.

How do you explain this if all those little girls and young women are 'really trans'? Women should also dominate in the older age groups.

Ive had a wee Google, and from what I can see, a lot of masc identifying gay women DO say that if they were younger, they would have probably transitioned, at least socially. But they cant be bothered now and they have enough of a masc identity as a butch lesbian to feel content.

I also came across a comedian who said she knows she comes across as a "them" and she probably is NB, at this point she's just being stubborn by continuing to identify as a woman.