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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

I'm confused what gender critical people want. Could someone clarify?

293 replies

Christinapple · 04/09/2025 09:36

They want any LGBT person or supporter who makes a threat of violence arrested? Correct? For an example there was Sarah Jane Barker who made a "if you see a TERF, punch 'em in the face!" comment. There was a Glasgow protest where someone held up a cardboard sign with a guillotine crudely drawn with a crayon and "decapacitate TERFs" or something scrawled. These happened years ago and to this day the GC community still talk about and refer to them and say they should have been arrested/charged/convicted.

For another example a trans person a while back jokingly posted something like "let's give KJK a NZ welcome" on twitter which then led to a lot of angry GC people from here making police reports and brigading them (someone posted a link on here and lots went over to be abusive directly to her).

And then Graham Linehan threatens to/incites others to punch trans people in their genitalia (not his first time btw, he has a long track record of threatening and inciting abuse and violence towards LGBT people and their supporters), and yet these same GC people flock to twitter to say that it's "free speech" and "people shouldn't be arrested for online communications".

So what is it to be? If you want LGBT people arrested and charged for threats then GL would need charged too.

If you want GL to have a "legal pass" to make threats then that means it should be the same for all including LGBT people and allies.

Whatever the law is it needs to apply to everyone equally. You can't have one rule for GCs and another rule for LGBT people and allies.

OP posts:
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DialSquare · 05/09/2025 08:42

SirChenjins · 05/09/2025 08:30

Chris has done his usual post and run, hasn't he?

I do wonder what he gets out of being made to look a fool time and time again.

I wouldn’t wonder too much about it 🤮

CohensDiamondTeeth · 05/09/2025 08:46

Hoardasurass · 05/09/2025 08:13

Hi @Christinapple since you want to bring up @Glinner and his recent arrest for giving the same self defence advice (bar pointing out that transwomen are men) that my police force (police Scotland) gave to my DS's special school on Monday vs the threats of rape and/or other physical violence upto and including death threats I'm happy to do so.
What do we want the police to do, simply arrest and prosecute every single tra and/trans person who threatens, harasses, stalks or intimates gc people and for them to treat every transwomen who does this to women as the violent men who are abusing predominately women that they are. In fact I'd like the persecution of women by transwomen to be elevated in law to a hate crime with an additional 10 year jail term added onto the sentence of these men (yes I know a normal.hate crime enhancement is only 5 years but that's not enough for the abuse from men who pose as women imho).
I'd also like the police to follow the Nolan principle that they are legally bound by.
I'd also like every transwomen who enters female single sex spaces to be prosecuted for, sexual harassment (just for being in 1), and voyeurism and/or indecent exposure, with those like Sophie Molly who take photos of themselves in these facilities to charged over each and every single photo as intimidation and threatening behaviour and malicious communication.
I'd like the police to arrest and prosecute TRAs for wasting police time.
Basically i want the police to follow the law as its currently written (bar the extra 10 years jail term) and apply it equally to both GC and trans as they are duty bound to but have spectacularly failed to do.

👏👏👏

I agree!

ThatBlackCat · 05/09/2025 08:52

Negroany · 04/09/2025 12:15

Are you sure it's the same people? Because I don't think anyone should ever invite violence, and while I'm a big GL fan I don't agree with the suggestion of violence in his tweet.

So, it may not be the same people. We don't all share one brain.

There is no suggestion of violence in his tweet, @Negroany ,the bit 'if all else fails' shows it's about self defence. It's what is taught in self defence classes, too, to knee a man there if you can't get away from him.

I really don't think people who criticised his tweet actually read it. He was only giving the same advice to women and girls that all parents give their daughters if they are attacked by a man.

Is self defence now a 'suggestion of violence'? Really?

ThatBlackCat · 05/09/2025 08:58

Negroany · 04/09/2025 12:32

I don't think anyone should be punching anyone and I don't think anyone should be suggesting it even as a last resort.

And I said "suggestion of violence in his tweet" in his tweet, not "violence in his tweet".

Interesting that your defence of his wording seems to be that it's reasonable to punch someone (as long as you have done two other things first). His defence was that it was a joke based on the relative height of women v men. So, despite the fact that he actually wrote it, you seem to think he had a different motivation than he claims.

Obviously, as you would see if you read my post rather than just jumping down my throat, I also abhor the call to violence against "TERFS". As I said, I don't think anyone should incite (autocorrect error in my original) violence.

So if a man had a girl in a chokehold, for instance, she shouldn't knee him to get away?

Is that what you're saying? That she should not attempt to defend herself or free herself? That kneeing your physical attacker is WORSE than a man grabbing hold of you and possibly raping you? Have you even stopped at all to think of what you typed out before you pressed send? Because you appear to be saying no woman or girl should be taught self defence.

ThatBlackCat · 05/09/2025 09:00

Negroany · 04/09/2025 12:34

What's that got to do with it?

Do you feel the same about people attempting to incite violence in other circumstances? Racial violence, for example.

Has anyone actually guillotined a "TERF" as a result of those signs being held up? Is that somehow different?

How is the sage advice to women and girls to punch (or knee) their attackers in order to flee them 'inciting violence'??

Please explain how self defence 'incites violence'. It's actually a response TO violence. To de-escalate and to flee the situation. I am sure all self defence instructors are eager for your answer.

SirChenjins · 05/09/2025 09:02

DialSquare · 05/09/2025 08:42

I wouldn’t wonder too much about it 🤮

Very true...

ThatBlackCat · 05/09/2025 09:05

Negroany · 04/09/2025 12:43

I haven't told anyone off.

I'm a 57 yo woman and I've never been told to sing, where in the world does that come from?

I've also done self defence classes and never been shown punching. You must have gone to a different class than I did.

Also, defence is used when you are attacked, not just because someone is in your vicinity.

Punch, knee. It's all about going for the balls.

GL's comment was about a man attacking a woman. Not just being in the vicinity. You don't even seem to understand what the tweet was about.

ThatBlackCat · 05/09/2025 09:19

Although I've often said since we cannot carry pepper spray, all women should carry an aerosol deodorant, a body spray, and spray it in the eyes of a man in the ladies to temporarily blind him. The more this is done, the less these men will 'chance' it. We need to fight back and we need to end this right now, once and for all.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 05/09/2025 09:19

ThatBlackCat · 05/09/2025 09:19

Although I've often said since we cannot carry pepper spray, all women should carry an aerosol deodorant, a body spray, and spray it in the eyes of a man in the ladies to temporarily blind him. The more this is done, the less these men will 'chance' it. We need to fight back and we need to end this right now, once and for all.

Hair spray also works.

Bogpinkbear · 05/09/2025 09:26

I carry deep heat spray. For my back. Obvs.

WeaselCheeks · 05/09/2025 09:36

I'm sure it'll have been covered by previous posters, OP, but the examples you've cited aren't the same:

The first was calling for violence against women by a biological male. It was saying that women who believe that biological males shouldn't be allowed unquestioning access to female spaces should be punched in the face.

The second was biological males calling for women to be murdered, again for believing that biological males shouldn't be allowed into female -specific places.

It's worth noting that gender critical beliefs are protected by law. These males were advocating violence against a group of women with protected beliefs. Male violence against women is a huge problem in society, on the grounds that, generally speaking, men are physically bigger and stronger than women. That's why we have sex-segregated spaces and sports in the first place.

The third was from a man, saying that if a male, regardless of how they're dressed or identify, is in a female-only space, women should punch them in the testicles as a last resort. A punch from a woman to a male's testicles is unlikely to do the same kind of damage as a male's punch to a woman's face, or decapitation.

Again, it's worth noting that the recent Supreme Court ruling has clarified that transwomen are male, and there's been additional comment from the government that they should either use the facilities for males, or unisex facilities. I think that the vast majority of people would agree that anyone with penis and testicles shouldn't be in the female facilities in the first place, even if they're fine with post-transition surgery transwomen sharing those spaces.

So, in short, your first two examples were males inciting violence against an entire group of law-abiding women, whereas the third was a man inciting violence against a hypothetical criminal male if other non-violent measures didn't remove them. In the case of the first and the third, both were arrested. The first was cleared, it'll be interesting to see what happens in the case of the third.

Basically, context matters. I think what gender critical feminist generally want is strengthened legal protections to protect women from males (however they identify), because whilst we believe that men and women are equal, we'd be stupid not to acknowledge that men have a physical advantage in terms of strength and size - which is why, historically, women have been discriminated against, treated like property, etc. There's also been a lot of high profile cases about 'transwomen' committing sex offences - some will argue that they're men using the trans umbrella to commit their crimes, others will argue that they're women, and their identity should be respected regardless. Women don't want to be put in the position where they're in a vulnerable space with Schrödinger's rapist, but they're just expected to put up with it to 'be kind'.

For me, there's sex and gender - sex is biology, gender is the societal expectations that comes with that biology, which varies around the world. The former is immutable, the latter is not - but being gender non-conforming is not the same as being the opposite sex.

DoinFineIThink · 05/09/2025 09:39

@Negroany defence is used when you are attacked, not just because someone is in your vicinity

Yes agree with this.
As for Sing I've heard of it from Miss Congeniality 😁
Solar Plexus
Instep
Nose
Groin

gingerelephant · 05/09/2025 09:48

The point is that the way the law had been interpreted has been inconsistent, GC comments are actions have been treated far more harshly by the authorities - and that is disturbing and in my view wrong.

SirBasil · 05/09/2025 10:04

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 04/09/2025 22:35

I'm very happy for you to describe yourself as "sex realist", and to avoid the description "gender critical" when talking about yourself. But I am a little puzzled, as your description of yourself views looks exactly like "gender critical" to me.

I don't like the term GC because I don't believe in gender. The gender stereotypes applied in various cultures are very different. Woman-Gender in Afghanistan, for eg. How many men are identifying into that? Can women in Afghanistan identify into Man-Gender?

Am happy to agree that my stance aligns with GC and don't mind using it or it being used to describe my stance. But I like to be crystal clear: my oppression is sex based.

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 05/09/2025 10:10

SirBasil · 05/09/2025 10:04

I don't like the term GC because I don't believe in gender. The gender stereotypes applied in various cultures are very different. Woman-Gender in Afghanistan, for eg. How many men are identifying into that? Can women in Afghanistan identify into Man-Gender?

Am happy to agree that my stance aligns with GC and don't mind using it or it being used to describe my stance. But I like to be crystal clear: my oppression is sex based.

That's fair. It does seem that a lot of people - not you - misunderstand gender critical. 'Gender critical' = 'critical of gender' seems to me to be easy to understand.

SirBasil · 05/09/2025 10:14

Agree. I spend a lot of time shouting "sex not gender" at the tv.

I try not to use the word unless I'm talking about foreign languages.

SidewaysOtter · 05/09/2025 10:24

Chris not been back then? Colour me fucking surprised. His debating skills need some work.

SidewaysOtter · 05/09/2025 10:25

ThatCyanCat · 05/09/2025 07:04

We had someone the other day who claimed that learning self defence techniques was premeditated violence, might be where Chris got this from. These are not serious people.

I presume boxers are never allowed out then? All that training to punch someone else really rather hard is just violence waiting to happen!

AnnaFrith · 05/09/2025 11:01

Haven't read the full thread.

People who are GC want the law to be based on the facts that sex is immutable, and sometimes matters, especially in cases where women may be vulnerable because men are bigger and stronger.

There is no reason why people who are GC should have the same view on free speech, we are not the Borg.

Personally, I think our laws on speech have gone way too far and need a total revision. There should be no legal protection from hearing words you find hurtful or 'offensive'. People need to develop some resilience. Claiming 'harassment' by someone on Twitter, where the option to block someone is easily available, is plainly ridiculous.

The ONLY restrictions on speech should be in relation to incitement to violence, or other actions that pose a risk of actual harm to someone. And the risk should reach a high threshold to warrant criminality. I'd say tweeting 'Decapitate TERFs' should not be criminal. (Although it's horrendous, and worthy of other sanctions, such as loss of employment). But 'Join me at (KJK's actual address) with an axe' definitely should be.

SternJoyousBeev2 · 05/09/2025 12:07

ThatCyanCat · 05/09/2025 07:04

We had someone the other day who claimed that learning self defence techniques was premeditated violence, might be where Chris got this from. These are not serious people.

TRAs think saying “no” is violence so ..🤷‍♀️

Boiledbeetle · 05/09/2025 12:13

@AnnaFrith

We are not the Borg.

Bugger. You mean I got all this done for nothing?

Crap.

I'm confused what gender critical people want. Could someone clarify?
Spookygoose · 05/09/2025 13:31

MarieDeGournay · 04/09/2025 11:19

Absolutely right. I believe the bolting on of the irrelevant 'T' to LGB has done untold damage to lesbians and gays like me, by implying that we are one community of issues and interests, and we are not. Same sex attraction, and identifying as the opposite sex, are entirely different things.

The damage to the lesbian and gay community is especially noticeable in Ireland, where the great success of the Marriage Equality referendum in 2015, showing that 60%+ of the population were happy to come out and vote that they regarded lesbians and gays as full citizens, was immediately hijacked by the trans juggernaut.

The result was the waving through of self-ID etc, as just a tidying-up of the 'gay' liberalisation process, and the TQAI++++++ taking centre stage in education, the media, legislation, etc.

LGB✂T!

I’m a lesbian too and really resent the hijacking of the acronym, rainbow symbol, and now even pride events. Great, the battle for LGB rights in the west has mostly been won, let’s leave it there. If gender ideology activists what to protest and fight for rights fine but don’t tack yourself onto the LGB community. Get your own bloody movement. It couldn’t be more different. Gender ideology is actively erasing gay rights by arguing that lesbians can have penises, lesbians should be open to dating men who identify as women and promoting the idea (intentionally or not) that there is no such thing as homosexuality because (as some of them believe) gender is fluid. It’s so fucked up. I wish more LGB people could see how much damage they’re causing instead of blindly following along with this woke idea of gender ideology and not looking deeper into it and actually questioning it!

SidewaysOtter · 05/09/2025 13:45

SternJoyousBeev2 · 05/09/2025 12:07

TRAs think saying “no” is violence so ..🤷‍♀️

They never fail to remind me of a Kevin-and-Perry style teenager insisting that being told to put a mug in the dishwasher means everyone wants them dead...

SquirrelSoShiny · 05/09/2025 13:56

Spookygoose · 05/09/2025 13:31

I’m a lesbian too and really resent the hijacking of the acronym, rainbow symbol, and now even pride events. Great, the battle for LGB rights in the west has mostly been won, let’s leave it there. If gender ideology activists what to protest and fight for rights fine but don’t tack yourself onto the LGB community. Get your own bloody movement. It couldn’t be more different. Gender ideology is actively erasing gay rights by arguing that lesbians can have penises, lesbians should be open to dating men who identify as women and promoting the idea (intentionally or not) that there is no such thing as homosexuality because (as some of them believe) gender is fluid. It’s so fucked up. I wish more LGB people could see how much damage they’re causing instead of blindly following along with this woke idea of gender ideology and not looking deeper into it and actually questioning it!

It was an act of near suicidal stupidity when LGB allowed false teaming with TQ. LGB had it largely tied up in the West. Most people accepted LGB. Sadly the backlash against TQ is turning people against LGB. I don't understand why more LGB people aren't out on the streets with 'Not in our name' signs. LGB will pay the price for the endless narcissism of TQ. TQ will quietly slither away back into hiding. Many are straight OR may be samesex attracted but cosplaying at victimhood.

ThatCyanCat · 05/09/2025 14:02

SquirrelSoShiny · 05/09/2025 13:56

It was an act of near suicidal stupidity when LGB allowed false teaming with TQ. LGB had it largely tied up in the West. Most people accepted LGB. Sadly the backlash against TQ is turning people against LGB. I don't understand why more LGB people aren't out on the streets with 'Not in our name' signs. LGB will pay the price for the endless narcissism of TQ. TQ will quietly slither away back into hiding. Many are straight OR may be samesex attracted but cosplaying at victimhood.

I'm not a member of this community, so I only throw this out there as a possibility... has it got anything to do with the recent phenomenon of straight people describing themselves as "queer"? I know a few of these. They date only people of the opposite sex but they're "pansexual" or "demisexual" or something like that, which apparently means they aren't just straight people attracted to particular features and traits...