Page 30 | Women's 'Private Spaces'

Howseitgoin · 2025-08-26T02:45:10+00:00

Clearly private spaces for women are considered a necessity by many due to a propensity for male sexual violence. Given this threat is much greater by orders of magnitude in the work place as opposed to public bathrooms, isn't it inconsistent not to demand private spaces there as well? Thoughts?

timesublimelysilencesthewhys · 27/08/2025 04:52

OP believes that trans identifying men are four times more at risk of violence from men than women are.

And doesn't think its possible for women to know who is trans or who is a woman.

Men know, obviously. Because otherwise OP stats wouldn't make any sense.

2021x · 27/08/2025 04:54

Howseitgoin · 26/08/2025 06:04

I'm not referring to bathrooms in the work place. I am referring specifically to being alone with men in the workplace. Nor am I suggesting there should be separate work spaces. I'm simply questioning the inconsistency in approaches to being in the company of men given the risk factor is present in both scenarios & significantly more at work.

Can't have it both ways?

I see your confusion.

Something that all women know is that men do not attack women in public. Its only when a woman is in a private space with a man that they are most at risk. That risk increases massively when the woman is in a state of undress and has their exit blocked. There nomal retort is that "women are most at risk from the man they live with" and I would observe that that man is simply the man that they are alone in private with for the longest period of time.

Sadly for women, this is something they learn usually around the onset of puberty, because they are most likely to be attacked in a sexual way by a man rather than for any other reason.

So to talk to your point. Workplace are fine, especially if they are balanced between the sexes. If a woman is the only woman in the workplace she is more at risk, and women generally don't put themselves in that situation in my experience.

Something else that men should know is that when most women are scared, they don't "fight" or "flight" because that would cause them more harm. The "freeze" or "fawn" . So if a woman is being really nice to a man, they are usually afraid of that man and are trying to control the interaction. Again most women learn very very early that the worst thing you can say to an aggressive and dangerous man is "no".

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 27/08/2025 04:55

Howseitgoin · 27/08/2025 04:52

"f a TG woman enters a single sex space for female, that space is no longer single sex. If it is a situation where there is a need for single sex i.e. toilets, changing room, sports, hospitals, prisons and rape crisis centers, then that would be illegal."

False. The provider is under no legal obligation but can make an exemption if they want to. At that point it becomes 'illegal'.

What do you think they are going to do with all the single sex spaces that already exist? Rip them out and replace them with unisex ones? Or say people have to use the correct ones for their sex?

Heggettypeg · 27/08/2025 04:58

Howseitgoin · 27/08/2025 04:40

"I have never used any of those words to you and you know it."

Your 'handlers' routinely do & not only do you know that but you don't call them out for it which kinda of makes you complicit.

"When the people who deny that women are adult human females come up with a coherent alternative definition of woman that doesn't rely on gender stereotypes and circular arguments, they might have a case that's worth discussing. Until then, there's no evidence that they are actually women at all, and plenty of evidence that some of them aren't fit to be in women's spaces."

Gender stereotypes like men are violent sexual predators ergo no dunny space for trans women?

Gender stereotypes like the one's you assume routinely in you day to day social life to distinguish men from women when you don't know 'what lies beneath'.

Do tell us all how you distinguish men from women in practice when you aren't aware of their reproductive characteristics? Do you reserve judgement until genetic testing confirms? Or do you do what we all do & assume based on stereotypical archetypical associations?

See how this works? It's not trans people making the rules on who does & doesn't qualify as as women or men but the actions NOT theories of greater society. IE you are part of your 'problem'.

Edited

Males commit the vast majority of sexual and violent offences. That's a fact, not a stereotype. Trans women offend at male rates, not female rates, in this respect. UK government statistics about this have already been supplied by another poster. So where this factor matters it makes sense to consider them as men. Which they are.

The number of people whose sex is truly not visible to a glance is very small and not a reason to pretend we can't tell for practical purposes.

And what's this rubbish about "handlers"? Are you implying that only people who agree with you are capable of thinking for themselves? That's pretty conceited.

2021x · 27/08/2025 04:58

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 27/08/2025 04:55

What do you think they are going to do with all the single sex spaces that already exist? Rip them out and replace them with unisex ones? Or say people have to use the correct ones for their sex?

Show quote history

I expect reasonable people will find unisex space, and that will become mandated in law.

If a space is single sex, then only people who are that sex are able to use that space, and if someone uses the space for the opposite sex, then ill-intent will be assumed.

Original poster

Howseitgoin · 27/08/2025 05:00

Your 'handlers' routinely do & not only do you know that but you don't call them out for it which kinda of makes you complicit.
If we're responsible for the words other adults choose to use them you're responsible for the sexual assaults committed by Katie Dolatowski, Karen White and Isla Bryson.
Guilt by association works both ways, mate.

All depends if you disavow those 'words' tho which you don't & won't.

Gender stereotypes like men are violent sexual predators ergo no dunny space for trans women?
You appear to be confusing statistics and stereotypes. Again.

Same goes for gender stereotypes tho. The data/incidence don't lie.

Gender stereotypes like the one's you assume routinely in you day to day social life to distinguish men from women when you don't know 'what lies beneath'.
Luckily, evolution gave us hundreds if not thousands of ways to tell "what lies beneath" without having to actually see it.
That's why I've never been confronted with a surprise vulva when having sex with a new partner for the first time.

wE cAn aLwAyS tEll…
https://www.vox.com/2016/5/18/11690234/women-bathrooms-harassment

Do tell us all how you distinguish men from women in practice when you aren't aware of their reproductive characteristics? Do you reserve judgement until genetic testing confirms? Or do you do what we all do & assume based on stereotypical archetypical associations?
Imagine thinking this is not a deeply moronic thing to say.

wE cAn aLwAyS tEll… even if a person avoids male puberty & takes hormones…we still knowwwww……

Women are getting harassed in bathrooms because of anti-transgender hysteria

Vox is a general interest news site for the 21st century. Its mission: to help everyone understand our complicated world, so that we can all help shape it. In text, video and audio, our reporters explain politics, policy, world affairs, technology, cul...

https://www.vox.com/2016/5/18/11690234/women-bathrooms-harassment

OP posts:

nutmeg7 · 27/08/2025 05:01

Howseitgoin · 27/08/2025 00:32

G'day OP.

G'day mate. Workplace safety and regulations that discriminate against transgender people are not acceptable or legal in the UK, as trans people are protected from discrimination under the Equality Act 2010, specifically under the protected characteristic of gender reassignment. While the UK Supreme Court has clarified that the definition of "woman" in the Act refers to biological sex, this does not remove the legal protection from discrimination against trans people.

Trans people are protected against workplace discrimination in terms of not getting fired just for being trans, not getting promoted or a pay rise for being trans, or not being appointed to a role due to being trans.

2021x · 27/08/2025 05:02

Howseitgoin · 27/08/2025 05:00

Your 'handlers' routinely do & not only do you know that but you don't call them out for it which kinda of makes you complicit.
If we're responsible for the words other adults choose to use them you're responsible for the sexual assaults committed by Katie Dolatowski, Karen White and Isla Bryson.
Guilt by association works both ways, mate.

All depends if you disavow those 'words' tho which you don't & won't.

Gender stereotypes like men are violent sexual predators ergo no dunny space for trans women?
You appear to be confusing statistics and stereotypes. Again.

Same goes for gender stereotypes tho. The data/incidence don't lie.

Gender stereotypes like the one's you assume routinely in you day to day social life to distinguish men from women when you don't know 'what lies beneath'.
Luckily, evolution gave us hundreds if not thousands of ways to tell "what lies beneath" without having to actually see it.
That's why I've never been confronted with a surprise vulva when having sex with a new partner for the first time.

wE cAn aLwAyS tEll…
https://www.vox.com/2016/5/18/11690234/women-bathrooms-harassment

Do tell us all how you distinguish men from women in practice when you aren't aware of their reproductive characteristics? Do you reserve judgement until genetic testing confirms? Or do you do what we all do & assume based on stereotypical archetypical associations?
Imagine thinking this is not a deeply moronic thing to say.

wE cAn aLwAyS tEll… even if a person avoids male puberty & takes hormones…we still knowwwww……

But this is because of transgender women aggressively demanding access to a space that is desinged to keep them out.

A reaosonable person could see that (if indeed) a female was accidently mis-gendered as male its is due to the hypervigilance as a result of the actions of transgender women.

Helleofabore · 27/08/2025 05:05

Howseitgoin · 27/08/2025 04:47

"And yet, it is not a human right to expect to have complete privacy to get changed in a facility that is designated single sex. As evidenced by the many swimming pool changing rooms and workplace changing rooms with shared communal space to get changed."

That they are traditionally communal doesn't have any baring on their ethical justification. the tradition/custom for sharia law in some countries doesn't make it right.

Your comparison with Sharia Law is irrelevant. And for someone who has been hyper focused on ‘rights’, you now have pivoted to moral obligation now that the ‘human rights’ aspect doesn’t work for you.

I can only take it that you agree with what I wrote though about there being no human right to expect privacy to get changed in a space designated as being for single sex only.

I mean coming from Australia with the many swimming pool and beach change rooms, you would know that these conform legally with no need to have cubicles? It is just the same as in the UK in case you are wondering.

nutmeg7 · 27/08/2025 05:06

Howseitgoin · 27/08/2025 03:07

I am trying to understand what thing I have in common with trans women that means it's more appropriate for them to share showers and changing rooms with me than with members of their own sex.
I'd say it's pretty damn relevant.
Very telling that you can't name a single thing.

The justification for their inclusion is safety. Their more of a risk of them abused in male bathrooms & no risk to women in theirs.

That trans women share behavioural commonalities with women doesn't come into public risk assessment.

“Share behavioural commonalities with women”

What the fuck are these behavioural commonalities?

Please do give some examples.

Original poster

Howseitgoin · 27/08/2025 05:06

I see your confusion.
Something that all women know is that men do not attack women in public. Its only when a woman is in a private space with a man that they are most at risk.

Um, If you think men are never alone with women in the work space I have a bridge to sell you.

That risk increases massively when the woman is in a state of undress and has their exit blocked.

Men don't seem to be too perturbed by clothing in my experience.

OP posts:

Original poster

Howseitgoin · 27/08/2025 05:08

"What do you think they are going to do with all the single sex spaces that already exist? Rip them out and replace them with unisex ones? Or say people have to use the correct ones for their sex?"

They are obliged to make arrangements that won't discriminate against trans people. If they don't have the obligation to give the special exemption that's why they have a choice in the matter.

OP posts:

nutmeg7 · 27/08/2025 05:10

Howseitgoin · 27/08/2025 03:39

"let men like him into"

Earth to poster: Rapists don't require 'permission' to go about their business.

Non sequitur time all over again.

You really need to learn how to build a case using logical steps, not unrelated sentences.

timesublimelysilencesthewhys · 27/08/2025 05:10

The number of trans allies who get misgendered aggressively in toilets is reaching epidemic propotions.

Yet, the other thread shows, most women wouldn't challenge a man in the loo.

Helleofabore · 27/08/2025 05:11

Howseitgoin · 27/08/2025 04:30

"If the provision has been designated as sex segregated in any way, then this does in fact mean that the opposite sex stays out."

Saying so won't make it so! The receipts speak for themselves.

What receipts?

Are you now trying to say that because a group of male people using the spaces that they are not supposed to be in that changes the law? Really?

Helleofabore · 27/08/2025 05:16

Howseitgoin · 27/08/2025 04:00

"You dont believe that women are legally entitled to single sex spaces and opportunities, but believes a subsection of men need those spaces for saftey?"

Um, trans women are women so that's irrelevant.

So why do you not respect Katie Dolatowski’s pronouns if you believe transwomen are women?

nutmeg7 · 27/08/2025 05:16

Howseitgoin · 27/08/2025 05:08

"What do you think they are going to do with all the single sex spaces that already exist? Rip them out and replace them with unisex ones? Or say people have to use the correct ones for their sex?"

They are obliged to make arrangements that won't discriminate against trans people. If they don't have the obligation to give the special exemption that's why they have a choice in the matter.

Single sex spaces don’t discriminate against trans people.

They are single sex. Not single “gendered presentation”.

A trans-identified male person is treated the same as a non-trans-identified male person. Neither are allowed into the female space.

No one can change their actual biological sex.

Original poster

Howseitgoin · 27/08/2025 05:17

"Males commit the vast majority of sexual and violent offences. That's a fact, not a stereotype."

Yes! your'e almost there! Male & female behavioural patterns are a fact that is a distinguishing sexual characteristic.

Trans women offend at male rates, not female rates, in this respect. UK government statistics about this have already been supplied by another poster.

Totally debunked link upthread.

So where this factor matters it makes sense to consider them as men. Which they are.

Yes, behaviour is a sex distinction, getting warmer….

The number of people whose sex is truly not visible to a glance is very small and not a reason to pretend we can't tell for practical purposes.

Clearly it's problem according to harassed CIS women IN POLICE REPORTS. Seems the misogyny in not believing women doesn't just emanate from men…

And what's this rubbish about "handlers"? Are you implying that only people who agree with you are capable of thinking for themselves? That's pretty conceited.

Your great Queen & lord protector who is without reproach JK ring any bells?

OP posts:

Helleofabore · 27/08/2025 05:18

Howseitgoin · 27/08/2025 04:05

"Most people (of either sex) don't like being spoken to like that and women in particular tend to take a jaundiced view of sexualised rudeness because they are so often the target of it. As any woman would know."

Oh really 'mean' words not like pedo, predator, delusional freak not ok? Not persuasive? Might be time you take your own advice…

What you really don't like here is the no 'beggy beggy nice' anymore. You reap what you sow…

Oh dear.

I think your mask slipped. Better attach it better. Or is in really dark where you are?

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 27/08/2025 05:22

timesublimelysilencesthewhys · 27/08/2025 04:52

OP believes that trans identifying men are four times more at risk of violence from men than women are.

And doesn't think its possible for women to know who is trans or who is a woman.

Men know, obviously. Because otherwise OP stats wouldn't make any sense.

I once listened to someone tell me, apparently in all seriousness, that a huge number of transphobia-motivated murders aren't captured in the statistics.

The conversation went like this:

Me: The number of trans people who are victims of murder is less than one per year on average in the UK.
Them: You can't trust the statistics, the data about trans people is unreliable.
Me: Why wouldn't the murders of trans people be captured in the statistics?
Them: Because they aren't being recorded or reported. Because the police are transphobic.
Me: The same police that bedeck themselves in rainbows every Pride month and tell the general public that misgendering is a hate crime? Those police?
Them: Yeah the police are super transphobic, everyone knows that. So when trans people are murdered they just cover it up.
Me: You think the police are involved in a large scale cover up of murdered trans people? Where are they hiding the bodies?
Them: They don't hide the bodies but the victims are just recorded as their birth sex. To be honest the police might not even know they were trans.
Me: Wouldn't their families think to tell the police they were trans?
Them: They might not be in touch with their families. Many trans people are estranged from their families after they come out, or their families would pretend they were cis and bury them under their dead name. Or their families might not even know they were trans, a lot of trans people aren't out.
Me: Wouldn't the police interview their friends, who would tell them that the victim was trans?
Them: No because the police don't listen to the trans community. Also the person might not have any friends. Or they might have friends but their friends don't know they are trans, because they're not out.
Me: OK, but the police are also going to look at their social media activist and internet history so I'm pretty sure the police will figure out that they were trans even if no one in their life was aware of it.
Them: Yeah but then they'd cover it up.
Me: Sorry but I don't believe that the police are just covering up the murders of trans people and that their families and friends aren't all over the media about it like Brianna Ghey's family. Or that the trans community wouldn't be raising awareness about the murder of one of their own.
Them: The trans community are oppressed and voiceless. And also the person might not have any friends, trans people are very isolated.
Me: The thing is, we know who a lot of trans people are and we know they're not being murdered at a higher rate than any other demographic. So I still don't understand where you think all these missing trans people are?
Them: Well, they're trans people who aren't out, obviously. Duh!
Me: Why do you think they're being murdered?
Them: Because they're trans!
Me: Even though they're not out?
Them: Yes, obviously. That can happen.
Me: Well yes, a trans person who is not out can be murdered. But it's not motivated by transphobia, is it?
Them: Any murder of a trans person is motivated by transphobia.
Me: But if their friends and family don't know they're trans, and the police investigating their murder don't know they're trans, how does the murderer know they're trans?
Them: The murderer doesn't know either.
Me: Well then it's not motivated by transphobia, is it?
Them: Stop minimising the murders of trans people!
Me: I'm not minimising the murders of trans people. I'm just not convinced there is much to minimise here. I simply don't believe that trans people are being murdered in large numbers without anyone being aware of it.
Them: Every murder of a trans person is a tragedy!
Me: Every murder is a tragedy. It's not more of a tragedy because the victim was trans.
Them: Don't "all lives matter" me!
Me: All lives do matter though...

Namelessnelly · 27/08/2025 05:23

Howseitgoin · 26/08/2025 23:42

"Newsflash, demanding access to single sex spaces of the of the opposite sex, IS NOT a human right. I am glad that UK feels compelled to respect women’s human rights to safety and dignity by providing single sex spaces.

But self determination is. Its in the HR charter.

Wtf is the HR charter?

nutmeg7 · 27/08/2025 05:24

Howseitgoin · 27/08/2025 05:17

"Males commit the vast majority of sexual and violent offences. That's a fact, not a stereotype."

Yes! your'e almost there! Male & female behavioural patterns are a fact that is a distinguishing sexual characteristic.

Trans women offend at male rates, not female rates, in this respect. UK government statistics about this have already been supplied by another poster.

Totally debunked link upthread.

So where this factor matters it makes sense to consider them as men. Which they are.

Yes, behaviour is a sex distinction, getting warmer….

The number of people whose sex is truly not visible to a glance is very small and not a reason to pretend we can't tell for practical purposes.

Clearly it's problem according to harassed CIS women IN POLICE REPORTS. Seems the misogyny in not believing women doesn't just emanate from men…

And what's this rubbish about "handlers"? Are you implying that only people who agree with you are capable of thinking for themselves? That's pretty conceited.

Your great Queen & lord protector who is without reproach JK ring any bells?

What’s this stream of consciousness? Are you trying to say something here??

You sound very confused. But I suppose if you believe a person’s sex is a matter of how they feel rather than just a fact about them, it probably makes clear-thinking and expression of ideas difficult for you.

Anyway, still waiting to hear some of your examples of what these behavioural characteristics are that women all share.

Helleofabore · 27/08/2025 05:25

“Your great Queen & lord protector who is without reproach JK ring any bells?”

And that mask has slipped again. Maybe you should ask for a replacement mask.

Although who is the lord protector? Oooohhhj. Squeeee… is it Thor?? I mean Chris H did a great job as Thor, don’t you think. And Cate B as Hela was also great. Taika Waititi did a great job in Ragnarok, dont you think?

So, is Thor our lord protector?

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 27/08/2025 05:25

Howseitgoin · 27/08/2025 05:08

"What do you think they are going to do with all the single sex spaces that already exist? Rip them out and replace them with unisex ones? Or say people have to use the correct ones for their sex?"

They are obliged to make arrangements that won't discriminate against trans people. If they don't have the obligation to give the special exemption that's why they have a choice in the matter.

This is fine because they're not discriminating against trans people. Trans people are male or female like everyone else, and both male and female people are provided for.

If they're not happy with that they can stay at home. Something you're quite happy to tell women to do if they don't want penises in their single sex spaces. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Namelessnelly · 27/08/2025 05:26

Howseitgoin · 27/08/2025 03:43

"In which case trans identifying men are surely just as much risk from women in women's toilets as they are from men in men's toilets, right? So they might as well go in men's toilets since the risk is the same, according to you."

As repeatedly posted. Trans women are four times as likely to be abused by men in their bathrooms. There's a decreased risk in women's. Comprende?

So if TIM are at risk in the males, why are you not telling men to be kind and stop attacking them? Just cos some males are uncomfy in the men’s, not an excuse to come into the ladies. Take it up with men. Male on male violence is not women’s problem.