Women's 'Private Spaces'

[Howseitgoin]

Clearly private spaces for women are considered a necessity by many due to a propensity for male sexual violence. Given this threat is much greater by orders of magnitude in the work place as opposed to public bathrooms, isn't it inconsistent not to demand private spaces there as well?
Thoughts?

It's funny that you think you're such an expert in UK law.

Eye roll. And we cycle around to another rinse and repeat.

"he feels in his head"

Biologically driven personality traits aren't a 'feeling'.
That you believe the sexes are only distinguished by reproductive traits is an inaccurate opinion that's ironically likely based on 'feelings'….

This really is getting absurd.

If the provision has been designated as sex segregated in any way, then this does in fact mean that the opposite sex stays out.

Continuing to detach quotes from the context of the post doesn’t mean that the rest of the post disappeared you know.

And yet you can't name a single one of these personality traits.

I have never used any of those words to you and you know it.
When the people who deny that women are adult human females come up with a coherent alternative definition of woman that doesn't rely on gender stereotypes and circular arguments, they might have a case that's worth discussing. Until then, there's no evidence that they are actually women at all, and plenty of evidence that some of them aren't fit to be in women's spaces.

So a male free environment is safer for trans identifying men but not safer for women and girls? How do you work that one out?

There's no proven increased risk to women by the presence of trans women as the data I linked up thread shows.

Edit: Wait, a "decreased risk"? Are you actually suggesting that the presence of men who think they are women makes single sex spaces safer for women and girls?

No. The decreased risk is for Trans women. The risk for women by transwomen isn't increased.

"If the provision has been designated as sex segregated in any way, then this does in fact mean that the opposite sex stays out."

Special exemptions were never a mandatory requirement. It's upto to the provider. Now if the provider decides they do want to give one then its only for biological women. Read the legislation.

"If the provision has been designated as sex segregated in any way, then this does in fact mean that the opposite sex stays out."

Saying so won't make it so! The receipts speak for themselves.

Ah. I should have known better than to think the risk to actual women and girls was if any concern to you whatsoever.

Your data is a crock of shit and has been debunked at length.

You mean we can't trust trans people to respect the law?

”I would add that those facilities should be also locked cubicles. Lots of people are uncomfortable with nudity regardless of sex.”

And yet, it is not a human right to expect to have complete privacy to get changed in a facility that is designated single sex. As evidenced by the many swimming pool changing rooms and workplace changing rooms with shared communal space to get changed.

There's no hypocrisy, just logic. You are denying that transwomen pose any risk being permitted in loos.

We've given you clear evidence in the UK they is. Now you are pointing out that some women are sex offenders too.

The difference is obvious. Allowing transwomen into loos is a known risk - some are sex offenders. We can debate how many.

If you add them / allow them in a space there will be more sex offenses.

Women's single sex spaces allow in women. We can't stop women using them.

In the workplace single sex toilets are indeed mandatory unless the space is so small that it only allows for one or two fully enclosed unisex units.

Everywhere else, facilities can only be designated as unisex unless they conform to a particular building specification which most of them do not.

If you designate toilets built to a standard design with gaps above and below the cubicle doors as unisex you are breaking the law, and if you designate them as single sex but allow special members of the opposite sex in you are also breaking the law.

And if you provide a service for some groups, for example, a rape crisis group for men and a rape crisis group for trans people, but not for another group (women) you are unlawfully discriminating against women.

HTH.

If Katie Dolatowski can't be prevented from going into a women's toilet and assaulting a ten year old girl, then a transphobic man can't be prevented from going into a women's toilet and assaulting a transwoman. You want us to believe rules are futile when they are made to protect women but not when they are made to protect transwomen.

"I have never used any of those words to you and you know it."

Your 'handlers' routinely do & not only do you know that but you don't call them out for it which kinda of makes you complicit.

"When the people who deny that women are adult human females come up with a coherent alternative definition of woman that doesn't rely on gender stereotypes and circular arguments, they might have a case that's worth discussing. Until then, there's no evidence that they are actually women at all, and plenty of evidence that some of them aren't fit to be in women's spaces."

Gender stereotypes like men are violent sexual predators ergo no dunny space for trans women?

Gender stereotypes like the one's you assume routinely in you day to day social life to distinguish men from women when you don't know 'what lies beneath'.

Do tell us all how you distinguish men from women in practice when you aren't aware of their reproductive characteristics? Do you reserve judgement until genetic testing confirms? Or do you do what we all do & assume based on stereotypical archetypical associations?

See how this works? It's not trans people making the rules on who does & doesn't qualify as as women or men but the actions NOT theories of greater society. IE you are part of your 'problem'.

Single sex spaces are spaces designed for the sexes not for any other reason.

If a TG woman enters a single sex space for female, that space is no longer single sex. If it is a situation where there is a need for single sex i.e. toilets, changing room, sports, hospitals, prisons and rape crisis centers, then that would be illegal.

The protective characteristic of gender reassingment is desinged to prevent someone from being treated unfairly in society where a non-trans person would be treated fairly. Preventing a transperson from accessing a single sex space of their choosing is not illegal, because a non-trans person has the right to do that.

Transitioning is a choice. The reasons for transitioing are not choice. This is different to sexuality because no one chooses their sexuality.

If you choose to transition, you are choosing to transition away from your sex and gender, but not with the expecation that you will be the opposite. That is something that should have mandatory counselling about before any type of transistion even social.

"You mean we can't trust trans people to respect the law?"

Spectacular comprehension fail.
It means the law doesn;t say what you wish it to say.

Your 'handlers' routinely do & not only do you know that but you don't call them out for it which kinda of makes you complicit.

If we're responsible for the words other adults choose to use them you're responsible for the sexual assaults committed by Katie Dolatowski, Karen White and Isla Bryson.

Guilt by association works both ways, mate.

Gender stereotypes like men are violent sexual predators ergo no dunny space for trans women?

You appear to be confusing statistics and stereotypes. Again.

Gender stereotypes like the one's you assume routinely in you day to day social life to distinguish men from women when you don't know 'what lies beneath'.

Luckily, evolution gave us hundreds if not thousands of ways to tell "what lies beneath" without having to actually see it.

That's why I've never been confronted with a surprise vulva when having sex with a new partner for the first time.

Do tell us all how you distinguish men from women in practice when you aren't aware of their reproductive characteristics? Do you reserve judgement until genetic testing confirms? Or do you do what we all do & assume based on stereotypical archetypical associations?

Imagine thinking this is not a deeply moronic thing to say.

"And yet, it is not a human right to expect to have complete privacy to get changed in a facility that is designated single sex. As evidenced by the many swimming pool changing rooms and workplace changing rooms with shared communal space to get changed."

That they are traditionally communal doesn't have any baring on their ethical justification. the tradition/custom for sharia law in some countries doesn't make it right.

The law says trans women aren't allowed in women's single sex spaces.

Your contortions here really are obvious.

Yes! the provider ‘designates’ the space as being for one sex class, then they have indeed provided a single sex space that no male person is included in.

Glad you agree! Your sound bite confirmed my point. Well done! We are getting there. No need to then snidely tell me to read the legislation though.

Are you going to pay to refit all communal changing facilities in the UK then?

This cycling around is really something, isn’t it MissS. There is a disconnect. I can only assume it is because they read only the top line of a law without the conditions that law applies and keeps repeating the top line.

"f a TG woman enters a single sex space for female, that space is no longer single sex. If it is a situation where there is a need for single sex i.e. toilets, changing room, sports, hospitals, prisons and rape crisis centers, then that would be illegal."

False. The provider is under no legal obligation but can make an exemption if they want to. At that point it becomes 'illegal'.