Women's 'Private Spaces'

[Howseitgoin]

Clearly private spaces for women are considered a necessity by many due to a propensity for male sexual violence. Given this threat is much greater by orders of magnitude in the work place as opposed to public bathrooms, isn't it inconsistent not to demand private spaces there as well?
Thoughts?

I was hoping for a wee 'feminazi', myself.

Just a reminder of what the majority of people in the UK think. I will also post polls from Australia and Canada too. They all show the same outcome. The majority of female people do not want any male person over the age of 8 years old in their single sex spaces, or any male person in their sport.

Posting this summary from the YouGov tracker

Comparing 2018 answers too.

In the following questions a transgender woman is someone who was biologically male at birth, but now identifies as a woman. A transgender man is someone who was biologically female at birth, but now identifies as a man.

Do you think transgender women should or should not be allowed to…
Take part in women's sporting events?2018 in italics, 2022 in [brackets vs 2024
Should be allowed 27 [16] 12% 2018 - 2024 this is decrease by 15%
Should not be allowed 48 [61] 74% 2018 - 2024 this is increase by 26%
Don't know 25 [22] 14%. 2018 - 2024 this is decrease by 11%

Use women's changing rooms? 2022 in brackets vs 2024
Should be allowed 42 [34] 25%. 2018 - 2024* this is decrease by 17%
Should not be allowed 33 [43] 58%. 2018 - 2024 this is increase by 25%
Don't know 25 [23] 17%. 2018 - 2024 *this is decrease by 8%

Use women's toilets? 2022 in brackets vs 2024
Should be allowed 46 [38] 33%. 2018 - 2024 this is decrease by 13%
Should not be allowed 30 [41] 51%. 2018 - 2024* *this is increase by 20%
Don't know 23 [21] 16%. 2018 - 2024 this is decrease by 7%

Use women's refuges? 2022 in brackets vs 2024
Should be allowed 47 [39] 29%. 2018 - 2024 this is decrease by 18%
Should not be allowed 27 [36] 55%. 2018 - 2024 this is increase by 28%
Don't know 26 [25] 16%. 2018 - 2024 this is decrease by 10%

No surgery question was asked in 2018

And the specific non surgical question from 2020:

Do you think a transgender woman who has not had gender reassignment surgery should or should not be allowed to...

Use women's changing rooms? 2020 in italics, 2022 in [brackets] vs 2024
Should be allowed 26 [25] 19%. 2020 - 2024 this is decrease by 7%
Should not be allowed 46 [48] 63%. 2020 - 2024* *this is increase by 17%
Don't know 28 [27] 18%. 2020 - 2024 this is decrease by 10%

Use women's toilets?
Should be allowed 31 [29] 23%. 2020 - 2024* *this is decrease by 8%
Should not be allowed 41 [46] 60%. 2020 - 2024 this is increase by 19%
Don't know 27 [25] 18%. 2020 - 2024 this is decrease by 9%

And finally:

This question was also not asked in 2018

Do you believe that allowing transgender women to use spaces reserved for women, such as women's toilets or changing rooms, does or does not present a genuine risk of harm to women? 2020 in italics, 2022 in [brackets] vs 2024
Does not present a genuine risk of harm 39 [32] 25%. 2020 - 2024 this is decrease by 14%
Does present a genuine risk of harm 32 [39] 55%. 2020 - 2024 this is increase by 23%
Don't know 29 [29] 20%. 2020 - 2024 this is decrease by 9%

d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/Transgender_data_2018.pdf
https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/Transgender_data_2020.pdf
https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/Internal_TransgenderIssues_220720_final_extraXbreak_FINAL.pdf
https://ygo-assets-websites-editorial-emea.yougov.net/documents/YouGov_-_Transgender_study_2024.pdf

There was also a Sex Matters poll done within days of the YouGov tracker. These are the results of it compared to in the past too. Just pulling them together, the Sex Matters (2533 adults polled) results were often more supportive than the YouGov results (2078 adults polled).

https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/SexMatters_Gender_241219_ZMwbM2T.pdf

In the following questions a transgender woman is someone who was biologically male at birth, but now identifies as a woman. A transgender man is someone who was biologically female at birth, but now identifies as a man.

Do you think transgender women should or should not be allowed to…

Take part in women's sporting events?2018 in italics, 2022 in [brackets vs 2024 SM (YG 2024)
Should be allowed 27 [16] 11%SM 2018 - 2024 SM this is decrease by 16% (YG 12%)
Should not be allowed 48 [61] 74%SM 2018 - 2024 SM this is increase by 26% (YG 74%)
Don't know 25 [22] 15%SM. 2018 - 2024 this is SM decrease by 10% (YG 14%)

Use women's changing rooms? 2022 in brackets vs 2024
Should be allowed 42 [34] 27%SM. 2018 - 2024SM this is decrease by 15% (YG 25%)*
Should not be allowed 33 [43] 56%SM. 2018 - 2024SM this is increase by 23% (YG 58%)
Don't know 25 [23] 17%SM. 2018 - 2024 SM this is decrease by 8% (YG 17%)*

Use women's toilets? 2022 in brackets vs 2024
Should be allowed 46 [38] 33%SM. 2018 - 2024 SMthis is decrease by 13% (YG 29%)
Should not be allowed 30 [41] 51%SM. 2018 - 2024SM this is increase by 20% (YG 55%)
Don't know 23 [21] 16%SM. 2018 - 2024 SM this is decrease by 7% (YG 16%)

Use women's refuges? 2022 in brackets vs 2024
Should be allowed 47 [39] 31%SM. 2018 - 2024 SM this is decrease by 16% (YG 29%)
Should not be allowed 27 [36] 47%SM. 2018 - 2024 SM this is increase by 20% (YG 52%)
Don't know 26 [25] 22%SM. 2018 - 2024 this is decrease SM by 4% (YG 20%)

And the specific non surgical question from 2020:

Do you think a transgender woman who has not had gender reassignment surgery should or should not be allowed to...

Use women's changing rooms? 2020 in italics, 2022 in [brackets] vs 2024SM (YG 2024)
Should be allowed 26 [25] 20%SM. 2020 - 2024SM this is decrease by 6% (YG 19%)
Should not be allowed 46 [48] 62%SM. 2020 - 2024 SM this is increase by 16% (YG 63%)
Don't know 28 [27] 18%SM. 2020 - 2024 SM this is decrease by 10% (YG 18%)

Use women's toilets?
Should be allowed 31 [29] 26%SM. 2020 - 2024 SM this is decrease by 5% (YG 23%)
Should not be allowed 41 [46] 58%SM. 2020 - 2024 SM this is increase by 17% (YG 60%)
Don't know 27 [25] 16%SM. 2020 - 2024 SM this is decrease by 11% (YG 18%)

You take your male toddlers into the women's changing rooms so I must be allowed in there as well?

All the proof you need that there is no such thing as a toilet which matches any kind of gender identity.

Especially for those who continue to believe that the majority of the world's population are fully supportive of the demands from trans people. Rather than that many of the world's population is supportive of some of the demands of trans people but have limits. 50,000 Australians filled in this survey.

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/news-life/all-the-questions-in-one-place-from-great-aussie-debate/news-story/ca8ab531382816ec97a4151b9088fab7

18. Should transgender athletes be allowed to compete in women’s sport?
No = 82.6%
It depends on the sport = 8.2%
I don’t know = 4.9%
Trans women are women = 4.2%

40. Do you share your gender pronouns in your email signature or in social media profiles?
No = 48.2%
No, but respect others’ pronouns = 28.2%
No, it is too confusing = 11.2%
Yes, but I don’t care what others do = 5.3%
Yes, and I appreciate when others do = 4.9%
Prefer not to say = 1.7%
My workplace doesn’t allow it = 0.5%

Australians do recognise that male people who have been through male puberty retain their male pubertal advantage. This is a significant aspect to understand because it is one of the foundation requirements for safeguarding. ie. male people pose a significant safety risk to female people because they are more powerful.

It was the fact that a man was allowed into an isolated and what should have been female only environment that did it.

Let's not forget that if the toilet had not been designated a female only space, the little girl's father could have accompanied her and kept her safe. But he didn't, he waited outside, because he was a law abiding citizen who was respecting that famous social contract you were talking about.

Research shows they experience higher rates of physical & sexual abuse by men.

What follow from this, in your argument?

Many groups of men experience elevated rates of abuse: young men, drunk men, mentally unstable men, known or suspected sex offenders. It doesn’t seem a very compelling basis to decide who belongs in the women’s loos.

This from Canada;

''Poll reveals Canadian trans policies that are out of step with public opinion''
''Canadians favour equality for trans people, but generally don't believe in gender self-identification, survey shows''

35 per cent agreed...that “anyone who wishes can identify as a woman.”
(34 per cent) sided with the notion that women are only those “who were born with female genitalia.”

18 per cent were comfortable with the idea of men legally becoming women, but only if they changed their genitalia through surgery.

(52 per cent) are not on board with a recent spate of Canadian legal reforms upholding the principle of gender self-ID

a clear majority of Canadians opposed to the adoption of “gender neutral” terminology [67 per cent]

66 per cent disagreed with the statement “everyone should put their pronouns in their social media profiles.”

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/angus-reid-poll-transgender-policies-canada

Annnnd

Now the MRA mode is fully on display.

🍿

"You’d need to account for the fact that: I) sex mixing is rarer than toilets than the general workplace, so you don’t have like-for-like, and II) the scale is very different, as people spend a lot more time in the general workplace than in public toilets."

And that only proves my point that the workplace is a more dangerous place & adding trans women (0.025%) to the equation isn't going to change that.

"Many groups of men experience elevated rates of abuse: young men, drunk men, mentally unstable men, known or suspected sex offenders. It doesn’t seem a very compelling basis to decide who belongs in the women’s loos."

Laws depend on evidenced harm & given trans women are proven not to increase harm then that's where they belong.

Erm, no it doesn't.

It's far more risky to sexually assault a female colleague in the workplace than it is to sexually assault a female stranger in a public toilet.

This is really all that needs to be said. Men don’t belong in women only spaces and they aren’t welcome in them. I’m sure the Australian government will wake up eventually. But it certainly isn’t going to change how women feel here.

But they aren’t “proven” not to increase harm. One study claims that. Other statistics suggest differently.

"Just a reminder of what the majority of people in the UK think. I will also post polls from Australia and Canada too. They all show the same outcome. The majority of female people do not want any male person over the age of 8 years old in their single sex spaces, or any male person in their sport."

You do realise the tyranny of the majority is why constitutional rights matter? Oh wait….

The answer, from women, is still no.

Employers already have a duty to provide single sex facilities, certainly in the U.K. It is not about 'private spaces' but about 'single sex' facilities in certain type of circumstance; usually when people may be undressing or are pre-occupied with their intimate biological function.

These are obvious 'no brainers' and are obvious safeguarding measures that can be taken.

We can eliminate some of the danger by not adding TRANSw (commonly known as men) into female only spaces.

It seems that Men in dresses demand that women protect them from men that don’t wear dresses.
Women are saying ‘No’ sort it out for yourselves.

Quite apart from the fact that you've been given a shit ton of evidence that they are in fact proven to increase the risk of harm to women and girls, this is not in fact the criterion for determining where they belong.

They do not belong in women's spaces because they are not women and have absolutely nothing in common with women.

We have more in common with women, trans men and most men than we do with trans women.

We have "being female" and "not believing we ought to be the opposite sex" in common with women.

We have "being female" in common with trans men.

We have "not believing we ought to be the opposite sex" in common with most men.

We don't have either of those things in common with trans women, or indeed anything else in common with them beyond being human. So why do they belong in our spaces?

Now that men are living longer a option for hygenic disposal of urinary incontinence products in the mens toilet is not a bad thing (some men would not use the accessable units out of feeling shame etc)

Why do you think what a group of men want is more important than what women want OP? Men are the oppressors, not the victims, in this.

Women aren't the ones acting like tyrants in this situation, mate.

"Employers already have a duty to provide single sex facilities,"

Not globally they don't. That the UK was compelled to do so as a politically expedient decision doesn't reflect well on their respect for human rights.

I mean, I know why, but do elaborate.

Getting your dick out in a women's toilets is not a constitutional right or even a human right.