Women's 'Private Spaces'

[Howseitgoin]

Clearly private spaces for women are considered a necessity by many due to a propensity for male sexual violence. Given this threat is much greater by orders of magnitude in the work place as opposed to public bathrooms, isn't it inconsistent not to demand private spaces there as well?
Thoughts?

yes mate, that same social contract means that men stay out of women's spaces, and any who don't are boundary violators.

rely on men to do the dirty jobs anymore.

Ooh an old fashioned MRA thread! It’s like it’s 2009!

It actually does give me a wee glow of nostalgia.

You’re not going to persuade anyone of your conclusion if you can’t even support your premises.

On what basis do you claim that the ‘general workplace’ is more dangerous than mixed-sex public toilets?

You’d need to account for the fact that: I) sex mixing is rarer than toilets than the general workplace, so you don’t have like-for-like, and II) the scale is very different, as people spend a lot more time in the general workplace than in public toilets.

The gist of what you linked to was ‘the data is poor quality’. ‘The data is poor quality therefore I’m right’ is the mark of a midwit at best.

The data is poor quality therefore I’m right’ is the mark of a midwit at best.

😁

That made me laugh too.

"Trans women might experience higher rates of harm in men's spaces, but I don't suppose there's much evidence either way since they haven't been using those spaces, they've been using women's spaces instead.

Research shows they experience higher rates of physical & sexual abuse by men.

"Does your link take into account the fact that trans identifying men have actually been convicted of sexually assaulting female victims in women's spaces in the UK? Because if it does, the data should show an increase. If there is no increase, it's because relevant data has been ignored."

Isolated instances aren't necessarily considered meaningful statistical data. IE you would need a percentage over a threshhold to be considered relevant.
see link

It really is clear by now that you have very poor knowledge of safeguarding.

Sure, we have laws that would prevent this in law abiding people. Male people entering into a female single sex space in the past would have resulted in venue security or police action.

What allowing some male people into single sex spaces has done, has removed the confidence that female people had in reporting these incidents. It absolutely has 'enabled the crime' because female people do not have any confidence in being able to report the incident.

An 'isolated environment'? What do you refer to by this?

If no person feels confident in reporting a male person entering into a female single sex space, that creates that 'isolated environment' that enables these crimes. However, it is not just physical attack. There is plenty of intimidation motivating some male people entering the female single sex spaces. We offered on the other thread to post images and reports of just male people in the UK entering female single sex spaces with the intention to intimidate and silence female people. We can provide many.

Abuse covers many aspects of the male pattern behaviour of not respecting female people's needs for single sex spaces.

If I’m being totally honest I would be perfectly happy to never have to share a one to one space with a man ever again in my life. I would be thrilled to have to option to be able to say I’m not going there because a man is there!

However that’s not realistic is it so I am happy to be having separate spaces where I am in a vulnerable situation ie in a state of undress or where a man’s penis may be out.

You should check out the thread on the number of men convicted of placing cameras in toilets in all kinds of places from homes to hospitals.

It may inform your reasoning on why making such statements are outdated.

You would need over a certain threshold - so there IS a number of women being raped or assaulted by TiMs that you consider to be acceptable? Where you think it's not relevant or important enough to care about or take action on.

And there are also other groups of male people who experience high rates of violence.

The answer is not to allow any groups of male people who experience high rates of violence into female single sex spaces.

The answer is, and always was, to deal directly with male on male violence for what ever reason it happens.

Research shows they experience higher rates of physical & sexual abuse by men.

Yes. Men are more violent and abusive.

The idea that we should put vulnerable men in with women because of this is insane.

Oh not another thread about toilets. I am going to have to read it all aren’t I?

I did see the other thread but it was full when I got to it.

The problem, as ever, deciding to engage because I don’t really want to discuss all the cases that show that the OP is completely wrong.

Also OP is using all the old arguments that have been debunked and are American.

Edit: Just reading and you beautiful lot are already batting down all the usual xx

That’s a problem for men to deal with. They are not the only group of men who are vulnerable.

Men need to sort it out themselves. Soz.

Sadly us women have become aware of the numerous websites where men trade pictures of us taken in loos / showers etc. This hardens any little sympathy we did have about widening access to men.

My source was a radio 4 documentary whatever you may think of the bbc pretty sure the journalists had checked their facts.

The social contact also was that no male people ever entered the female single sex spaces to use them.

Thank you for reminding us all of that 'social contract'.

I thought for a moment that you had no knowledge of social contracts.

So, was this shite premise of an OP just an excuse to repeat the same dull TRA talking points on yet another thread?

The N+1 argument

Whats your number if its ok to sexually assault a limited number of women?

This one has it all KTS.

It is supposedly not about toilets, it is about leveraging work place scenarios into allowing male people access to female single sex spaces though.

But this link doesn't have anything to do with the UK. It's based on highly selective data put together by a US based trans activist think tank.

Do you have a link to anything even slightly relevant to the UK?

Also, saying that isolated instances aren't relevant kind of suggests you think there is a lower threshold for the number of female people who need to be harmed by trans identifying men in women's spaces before it can be considered statistically meaningful. What do you think that number should be? How many women and girls being harmed would be statistically meaningful, in your opinion?

Indeed it was.

And strangely, I think they thought that they could use 'being in Australia' as some kind of gotcha.

What will be next “I bet you have a gender neutral toilet in your home?”

It's quite funny/sad really, reading through this. EIGHT pages of responses and the vast majority are from women saying/explaining no we're uncomfortable with sharing our 'private spaces'.

But yet the 'staunch feminist' OP is basically just say NO you're wrong, that's not good enough 🥲 try again, try harder, where's you're evidence...

It's so disheartening.

Whatever the space, private or not - unfortunately the most common denominator in being SA'd/assaulted is men. We (biological women) sometimes have a fear of men, please grant us one less thing to worry about and let us have our private spaces for when we are at our most vulnerable.

I consider myself a 'normal' woman as in, not really experienced being in any particular real danger in my life/dangerous situations. I've just plodded along a typical life to age 34 so far. I have been SA'd by two male 'friends' and two male long term partners. 'Decent' men who I loved and cared about who to everyone else around them are decent human beings. But in those moments they were not. I have no idea who's out to assault me unfortunately, or when the mood might take that man.