What would you actually do if you saw a transperson in the wrong toilet/changing room for their sex?

[FattyMcFattyArse]

I've been pondering this ever since the FWS decision and since I saw an obviously male transperson using the ladies at a service station. I initially froze and wanted to say something, but all my Britishness and female social conditioning made me just mutter under my breath and walk away in disgust.

What would you do?

What have you done?

What is the right thing to do?

They don't belong there, according to the law.

The williams 'institute', a trans think tank, has long been discredited. Not even trans activists cite it any more.

You don't seem to understand that an assault does not need to be 'successful'. Any male in a female only INTIMATE space is harming women by virtue of being there.

Workplaces have nothing even remotely to do with this argument.

The facts show transwomen sexually offend 5 times greater than other 'cis' males. Transwomen are actually the most dangerous cohort.

And for the fucking last time, it is NOT JUST ABOUT ASSAULT OR SAFETY. It is about PRIVACY AND DIGNITY away from the male gaze. It's why FEMINISTS WON THESE SPACES for us.

But "woman" can't simultaneously mean "female person" and "male person".

Or 'bathrooms ' for that matter. Your arguments may work better if you stick to UK topics, tbh.

With the OP's use of 'bathroom', and US sources says to me they're from the US. And male. A double danger.

“Trans women being of a more feminine temperament are less inclined to violence.”

Bollocks.

Just going to repeat this post:
For anyone who wants to know what should be considered for evaluating risk of this sub group of males to show that they have a risk level not less than any other male in the UK of committing sex crime, have a read through the statistics for males who have transgender identities who commit sex crimes in the UK

Firstly, This was a question answered earlier this year:

https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-questions/detail/2024-12-16/20298.

Question from Rebecca Paul (MP Reigate): To ask the Secretary of State for Justice, with reference to the HMPPS Offender Equalities Annual Report 2023-2024, published on 28 November 2024, how many of the 50 transgender prisoners who reported their legal gender as female were convicted of a sexual offence.
Answer from Sir Richard Dakin (MP Scunthorpe): 23 December 2024

Of the 245 transgender prisoners who reported their legal gender as male (i.e. those who now identify as women, non-binary or gender-fluid) on 31 March 2024, 151 were convicted of a sexual offence. This includes both contact and non-contact sexual offences. Offence data was not available for 1 individual.

Of the 50 transgender prisoners who reported their legal gender as female on 31 March 2024, the number convicted of a sexual offence is five or fewer. We do not provide exact data for such small sample sizes as it risks identification of individuals. This approach is in line with our standards on data disclosure.

To put this into perspective with what we already knew from FOI information. I posted the information to a regular poster from FWR on another thread, who did not acknowledge the information at all, so it seems sticking the info here is appropriate:

Here is data from the MoJ
Here is an FOI request from 30 April 2024

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/populationoftransgenderoffend/response/2641337/attach/html/7/FOI%20240322022%20Annex%20A.xlsx.html

Up to the 31st March 2023, the MoJ stated that of the 88 male transgender prisoners with one or more sexual offences.

The breakdown was
48 rapes,
0 attempted rapes,
10 Sexual assault or attempted sexual assault,
13 causing or inciting a child under 16 to engage in sexual activity,
0 indecent assault or gross indecency
6 sexual activity with a child under 16
0 other

77 listed here.... BUT there is a total of 88 in the total so there is 11 crimes not noted.

Possessing or making indecent photographs or pseudo photographs of child has not been recorded in this FOI.

However, there is are further discrepancies in the data of the following when you look at TOTAL NUMBER OF TRANSGENDER PRISONERS SENTENCED FOR A PRINCIPAL SEXUAL OFFENCE.

1 causing or inciting a child under 16 to engage in sexual activity
3 rapes
2 sexual activity with a child under 16
3 Sexual assault or attempted sexual assault,

This equals 9 additional... however the sum for TOTAL NUMBER OF TRANSGENDER PRISONERS SENTENCED FOR A PRINCIPAL SEXUAL OFFENCE is 99.

Therefore 2 more sex crimes have been hidden from this data.
There were 203 males who were declared as transgender in the prison at the time.

There were 24 NB who were not segregated into male and female. What is key here, is that THIS IS NON-GRC HOLDERS. And we all know that males holding GRCs have increased and they are excluded from this data. NO female people with transgender identities were sentenced to a principal sexual offence. There were 41 female people with transgender identities in UK prisons at that time.

As a comparison, I have stats that say as of April 2019 that the general male MoJ data for male sex offenders was just 16.8% of the male prison population.

And there were 3.3% of female people in UK prisons were sex offenders.

I will leave you to do your own sums. But... even using the figure of 88/203 is 43.3%. (And that doesn't include making or possessing indecent photographs of a child remember.)

By the way this exercise was done in 2021. And I checked this data myself from the data source and it was correct at the time. So, it will give some back ground to the above.

The ones that say that in the March/April 2021 data collection period, the MoJ stated that of the 97 transgender prisoners with one or more sexual offences.

The breakdown was
40 rapes,
8 attempted rapes,
31 possessing or making indecent photographs or pseudo photographs of child,
32 Sexual assault or attempted sexual assault,
20 causing or inciting a child under 16 to engage in sexual activity,
10 indecent assault or gross indecency
9 sexual activity with a child under 16
27 other

The 97 sex offender transgender prisons collected 177 sentences between them.

And that according to that FOI 197 prisoners are transgender.
This is why NO SUB GROUP OF MALE PEOPLE SHOULD BE EXEMPT FROM RISK ASSESSMENT. This group of male people still retain the same male pattern of committing sex and violent crime.

And for assessing risk, the rates of committing sex and violent crime would need to be equal to or be lower than the rate found in the UK general female population.

whether someone thinks “Trans women being of a more feminine temperament are less inclined to violence.” or not. The stats currently show that male people with transgender identities are not less of a risk of committing sex crimes than male people generally in the UK.

That’s really very good. I particularly like the Little Red Riding Hood analogy with its example of gaslighting - LRRH sees the danger - “what big ears you’ve got” etc. - and the wolf uses “reasons” to overcome her instinctive fear “all the better to hear you with”. Thanks. Women’s instinctive fear of men in women’s spaces is based in biology, in evolution, in collective experience and in common sense.

Feminine temperament, eh?

But chairperson is derived from history as the person who actually got to sit in an armed chair during meetings and was the arbiter of the meeting. Men can never be women no matter how you try to twist language.

To be fair, it's not wholly a US-based or post Supreme Court phenomenon.

Here's one from three years ago.

https://www.thepinknews.com/2022/10/31/cis-woman-harassed-transphobe-female-toilet-short-hair/

I post this one all the time because it's so hilarious. These people are absolutely deluded if they think anyone other than the most reality-detached trans activist is going to believe this woman has ever been mistaken for a man.

Mind you, perhaps post Supreme Court judgment there are now more willing volunteers to pretend they've been challenged in women's toilets, and perhaps some of them actually do look more like a man than this (very pretty and feminine) young woman does.

And what about the abuse that comes about from the intimidation of those male people being in the female single sex space knowing that in the UK the law says that they should not be there?

Shall we post the links to all the male people taking photos of themselves in those spaces or entering those spaces as an act of intimidation? You surely understand that knowing that they should not be there (it is extremely well publicised in the UK after the SC judgement in April), so it can safely be assumed that any male now using the female single sex spaces know they should not be there. There are even reports of well known male barristers using the female single sex spaces. They know and they continue to do so knowing the distress it causes female people.

How many photos and incident reports will convince you? Because I reckon we could find hundreds just from the UK.

Oh God, not this again. It’s been done to death on these boards and already discussed right here on the thread. Just read the thread would you?

As a female person who grew up being asked if I was in the correct toilet for my sex, I can assure you that I appreciate that other female people have used this, and still do. as one of the only ways to protect themselves and others in the female single sex spaces.

What is new is the way that those who want to leverage male people accessing female single sex spaces have weaponised this action.

The weaponisation of female people being asked if they are in the right single sex space for them is emotionally manipulative. It creates shame for those who ask the question, ie those very women and girls who are signalling their need to keep their space single sex. It also attempts to make masculine looking female people comparative to male people. It then also serves as a method to make female people who don’t feel they look female to others fearful.

The reports are also too often hyperbolic and over exaggerated for effect. Do women and girls get asked if they are in the correct space for them? Yes. They do, this is not new.

And when we answer, our voices are heard and reinforces our answer.

The weaponisation of female people to leverage the access of male people into female single sex spaces is an act of misogyny. Yet people continue to do this on a thread on the feminist board.

And how would you react to a trans man using the female toilets?

Just read the fucking thread. This has been addressed and the answer will be easy to find on any number of threads asking the same fucking thing.

”The weaponisation of female people to leverage the access of male people into female single sex spaces is an act of misogyny. Yet people continue to do this on a thread on the feminist board.”

Katie Dolatowski wouldn't have been alone with his 10 year old victim if he hadn't been in the women's toilets, would he?

Either you're unaware of cases like this, or you think trans identifying males actually being convicted of sexually assaulting pre-teen girls in women's toilets isn't evidence of increased violence resulting from trans identifying males in women's spaces. In which case, what WOULD be enough evidence for you?

And why it is that actual, verified, examples of trans people being convicted of sexually assaulting girls in female only toilets in the UK isn't evidence that they pose an increased risk to women and girls, but propaganda pieces from sites like Vox about things which allegedly took place in North-Wyoming-bama are good evidence that trans and gender non conforming people aren't safe in toilets?

Wouldn't bat an eyelid at a woman in the ladies loo. Why would you?

Transmen are women. They present little of the risk that men present. Generally speaking are far less likely to act in an entitled and aggressive manner, too, in my experience.

Please point to any post on this thread that says that all female people can 100% can correctly identify someone’s sex?

I mean, just in this thread alone there are posters declaring that they, personally, cannot tell who is male and who is female. So you have actually not proven anything with this post that you think you have proven.

This is a failed gotcha attempt by you, and it also shows you don’t have any depth of understanding about what posters are talking about. Plus it also shows you personally have either too low or nonexistent boundaries.

I would predict that you cannot recognise abusive situations, making this statement below worthless.

”Therefore unless a person is being abusive might be more productive to mind one's own stereotypes.”

And if you are relying on ‘stereotypes’ to identify who is male and who is female, you really don’t understand human physiology do you?

Please stop assuming your own inability to correctly identify a person’s sex class and to identify abuse is the universal experience.

I'm as furious as you about this. I had two very close together children. I had no option, a lot of the time, but to take a twin buggy into the ladies with me. I then had to wee with the door ajar so they could see and hear me. All these fuckers defending men in women's spaces and saying I'm the problem can fuck right off.

Therefore unless a person is being abusive might be more productive to mind one's own stereotypes.

So rather than taking safeguarding steps to attempt to prevent abuse before it starts, we must wait until it is happening before we can do anything about it? That doesn’t seem to be a very good strategy for reducing harm against women.

😂 but you are talking about confronting people you "know are men". Just genuine intrigue about how you would "know"as your spider senses are tuned to confront men in the ladies loos - what if the person is a VERY passable trans man. Then you are curtailing another woman's rights... it's all a bit of mess isn't it?

I can imagine it is even harder with a twin buggy.

I think that every person who has ever posted a reply along the lines of ‘you are the one exposing yourself’ or ‘this is your own lack of planning’ has done so from a position of ignorance or privilege. One poster who told me it was my own fault, comes from an area with a huge shopping centre that has family spaces for toilets, breastfeeding cubicles etc and drives a car to the shopping centre that has plenty of inexpensive and easy access parking. Yet told me it was my personal failings that led to being in that situation.

All to convince people that male people should access female toilets or that all toilets should be now unisex. The ignorance of the lives of mother’s is off the charts when people make those statements.

The weaponisation of female people to leverage the access of male people into female single sex spaces is an act of misogyny. Yet people continue to do this on a thread on the feminist board.

or should I add an emoji and you might read the posts? How about this one 🚩🚩🚩🚩

Why do you feel women’s safety, dignity and privacy is a laughing matter?
With regard to trans identifying females, posters on here who are TM/TiF tell us they will avoid women’s toilets as they don’t want to cause distress and will use unisex facilities.
Funny how out of two groups of trans people only one appears to consider the safety, dignity and privacy of women, huh?

Because trans men who pass aren't using women's toilets.

HTH.