What would you actually do if you saw a transperson in the wrong toilet/changing room for their sex?

[FattyMcFattyArse]

I've been pondering this ever since the FWS decision and since I saw an obviously male transperson using the ladies at a service station. I initially froze and wanted to say something, but all my Britishness and female social conditioning made me just mutter under my breath and walk away in disgust.

What would you do?

What have you done?

What is the right thing to do?

They don't belong there, according to the law.

I usually find it quite easy to identify transmen- they tend to be shorter than men, and smaller, with smaller hands and feet. Their voices tend to be higher. They don’t have a prominent Adam’s Apple. They have women’s hips and wispy facial hair. Their gait is different.

And if transmen really do pass well as men, then they are very likely to use the men’s facilities and no one will be any the wiser.

The same can’t be said for transwomen who very rarely pass as women, because it is much easier to masculinise a body than feminise one.

The Supreme Court ruling specifically covered all of this guff by the way.

Females who have taken enough drugs to appear masculine enough that they would threaten women
go in the mens

all males no matter what they think they look like
go in the mens

only females go in the ladies

males in the ladies need to understand why current manicure styles are pointed

If you had read the thread, you will see screenshots of data that show transwomen pose a threat 5 times greater than other males.

They are more dangerous than so-called 'cis' men.

And it's not just about 'danger'. And as stated by myself and others on this thread, over and over again, it's not just about safety. It's about privacy and dignity for women and girls away from the male gaze. Women and girls flee to the ladies to escape men. Cry. Miscarry. Rinse out blood stained underwear, and can be in a state of semi undress at the sinks if changing to go somewhere or adjust ourselves. We don't feel comfortable with males there. It's really common sense and what our foremother feminists fought for. A male in a dress with no lived experience as a woman who has male height and male advantage and went through male puberty is traumatising to other women and girls. It's not 'blurred' at all. You want it to be. But it's not. No male, no matter in a dress or in a suit and tie, belongs in an intimate female only space where women and girls are vulnerable. We are not human shields or support animals for messed up males.

I've worded it badly and don't really know how to be clear. I read the op post and most replies as a transgender woman who looked quite masculine shouldn't be in a women's public toilet, and I'm trying to say that I don't see a problem with it and wouldn't complain. I don't think they should have to use the mens! Whereas if it's literally a man he shouldn't be in there. Of course it's a flawed strategy and I don't know how you police it but you can't kick a woman out of the loos because she looks manly. Am I misunderstanding the issue?

Because skeletal proportions, gait and hip alignment, q angles etc do not change with testosterone.

Sure, it might be harder for some female people to judge a female face under facial hair, but there are some very clear signs that our brains pick up sub-consciously. Of course, not all female people will successfully be able to identify the sex of a female on testosterone correctly. That is why the Supreme Court judgement was clear that those female people may choose to use a gender neutral provision.

Please. Just stop weaponising female people with transgender identities to leverage male people into the female single sex provisions. This is not a gotcha at all.

So really the case is that there should just be single cubicle toilets for people to use that have the loo, basin etc in that one space and then all people whatever sex can have a private and safe space. Many museums, universities and public spaces already have this and it would solve the problem for all, no?

They don't worry about us feeling unsafe, so why should we worry about them feeling unsafe?

There is, in any event, no actual evidence to suggest they will be remotely unsafe in the men's, whereas some of them are literally serving prison sentences for attacking women or girls in women's toilets.

Are you talking about female people with transgender identities? Or male?

When you say 'transgender woman', do you mean a male to female trans person or a female to male trans person?

Are you saying that a group of male people should not be using the male toilets? why?

Transmen are short with female skeletal features. We do know the difference between a female dressing as a male, and a male.

This 'how can you tell a man from a woman' is so bloody stupid. It's called eyeballs. It's called height, male jaw bone and male skull, adams apple, voice, gait, lack of hips, limb length, hand size, philtrum width, christ I could go on and on and on! Anyone with eyeballs or at least functioning eyeballs can see easily.

Whereas if it's literally a man he shouldn't be in there.
A trans identified man IS literally a man, however he dresses. What is it you don't understand?

"manly" stops and starts at gait analysis.

I went to the women's Rugby in Exeter the other day.
Italy's number 11 looks like a bloke
except she just doesn't
because men and women walk differently

some of the bulldozer lesbian props on both teams (they are and they are by the way) might seem male till you see them walk to the side line

Male pelvic alignment and female result in different gait
its that simple

They are males so it's a male problem to sort out.
What has it got to do with women?

@Blueysotheemother Yes of course...even though it's not our problem...just noone listens...and even when there are third gender neutral spaces many transwomen insist on using women's only facilities...anyone quote for you...

"Same sex spaces for females are now the target of trans activists. Why? The usual answer is that at least some transwomen do not feel safe in male-only spaces because they fear violence from men. Transwomen want to be protected from males who may seek to do harm to them. Alternatively, they may just feel uncomfortable around men who, unlike them, don’t identify as women.

But those are exactly the reasons that biological females do not want biological males in their private spaces.

Please think about this for a second. Males who identify as women do not want to share private/intimate spaces with men. But neither do women. There is an obvious problem here: the trans advocate insists on the very same right — to not share their private/intimate spaces with males — that they maintain must be denied women.

This position necessarily entails wrongful discrimination against women because their interests in having single-sex spaces are being accorded less protection than the interests of males who identify as women and who do not want to be around other men in those private/intimate spaces. The claim is that transwomen can only get that protection by denying women protection for their identical interest. Treating similar cases in a different way without justification is the very definition of wrongful discrimination."

<a class="break-all" href="https://archive.is/2024.11.03-091945/philosophersmag.com/the-transgender-rights-issue" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://archive.is/2024.11.03-091945/philosophersmag.com/the-transgender-rights-issue/

These unisex toilets are not considered the safest option. They may be good as an 'additional' choice for those who reject the single sex provisions for their sex or who have other needs where these spaces are useful.

Not only that but they take up extra space or remove the quantity of toilets needed for female people because there is generally not enough space allocated. Plus why should female people be then lining up with male people to use of these cubicles? That is just another removal of privacy and dignity, for both sexes.

So, no. Turning all provisions into these spaces doesn't 'solve the problem for all'.

Having them in addition can be considered a solution though. Feminists have been suggesting third spaces for decades. They were rejected by the transgender support groups and feminists were called bigots and fascists for suggesting them.

1. Can I suggest you go find the parents of the two pre-teen girls who were sexually assaulted in women's toilets by Katie Dolatowski and ask them whether this is a "real problem"?
2. How in the world do you think it is possible to make a law or a policy that allows men who really do feel they ought to have been women to use women's toilets, but excludes men who are just wearing a skirt and makeup? Literally, how do you see this working?

NO!!! It's the communal space that gives women and girls safety and security and support. We want female only communal spaces to stay as they are.
And males in male spaces and females in female spaces.

As it has been for over a hundred years.

You do realise that we can't see people's feelings, right?

If you see a man in the women's toilets, how do you know whether he feels like a woman inside or whether he feels like sexually assaulting the next ten year old who comes in to use the loo while her dad waits outside?

I wish I could find the video of the male vs female gait where they added lights to joints and got respondents in the study to identify whether the movement of the lights indicated a male or female. It was a very very high accuracy rate.

There has been so much misinformation spread by people declaring 'no one can really tell'. It was never true. But in particular, female humans are very likely to be able to identify the sex of male people and highly likely to identify female people as well.

So if you saw Elliot Page walking into the women's toilets, you'd just see a man, would you?

I didn't read it all, no and I didn't know that. My post was more of a question than anything else, so thank you for replying. I feel for people who have felt so trapped and changed gender and I feel that they should be able to live as they choose...but that's obviously very naive of me and it's more of a big mess than I thought.

Are you genuinely saying that women now feel uncomfortable queuing up beside men? What on Earth do you do in the coffee shop or supermarket, run away and wait until all the opposite sex have gone?
im not talking about a unisex loo, thats the worst possible solution for all. I mean just a public corridor with several single person toilets off. It’s common in many public buildings and has been for years.

Here is a study done on faces

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S004269892200133X

Our results indicate that facial structures with full information on the texture and color of the skin are correctly classified as to their sex by most of the participants (98.4 % for Exp. 1 and 94.6 % for Exp. 2). If we do not consider versions 3 and 5 (close to the androgyne version 4), which contain a certain degree of sex ambiguity and only consider the less ambiguous versions (1 and 2 for male faces, and 6 and 7 for female faces), the accuracy approaches the ceiling (99.9 % for Exp.1, and 99.1 % for Exp.2). This is in line with previous research which observed that natural faces, devoid of any cultural signs of sex, are generally correctly categorized into their sex

I would think that results over 90% indicate a correct assumption that most of the population can accurately identify the sex of humans from faces. However, note the difference between people correctly identifying male versions of faces vs female.

The study mentions other papers as well.

I have a link stashed away that show that babies can recognise male and female faces too.

I am really not sure when people started to believe that their inability to tell the difference between male and female people through observation and hearing voices was the norm. The research says otherwise.

They ARE literally men though.

Perhaps that's the part you're misunderstanding.

I believe it is very clear that I referred to queueing to use the toilet.

Your attempt at distracting from this is not even logical.

What is the difference between a 'unisex loo' and 'single person toilets' specifically? Please detail what you see the differences as .

For anyone interested, Amy E Sousa has done some videos on the recognition of sex category in humans.

https://www.theknownheretic.com/p/instinct-sos-sex-recognition

Amy Sousa is a Depth Psychology specialist. Meaning she has studied and she teaches about human instinctive behaviour.

I recommend any person who doesn’t believe that humans are likely to correctly identify the sex of other humans particularly female people recognising male people, might like to watch this.