Transwoman accused of sexual assault after concealing male genitalia on date

[BunfightBetty]

Could be interesting. Consent is surely only consent if you know what you're consenting to...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15019143/Trans-woman-sexually-assaulted-man-concealing-male-genitalia.html

Um. That man sexually assaulted his victim. Why are you minimising that? Would you say the same if it was a man without a trans identity doing that to a woman? Why does the sex of the victim matter? Why are you defending a rapist?

1. Men who say they prefer natural-looking women receive a lot of abuse and are told that they shouldn't be telling women how to style themselves.

1. Women who go for the "Kardashian look" (or any other style that isn't natural) overwhelmingly state that they don't choose that style because men like it, and instead, they are "doing it for themselves." Men's opinions and preferences therefore are not relevant.

You know when I read a load of guff like this, I have to remind myself that approximately half the population have a below average IQ. It's not their fault.

I think PPs point is that potential male victims of sexual assault by other men could protect themselves by deselecting women who wear a lot of make up and have lip fillers from their dating pool. This is wrong on a number of levels. Firstly, the onus placed on the victim. Secondly the implication that women who present in a certain way are indirectly abetting this crime by making it easier for men to 'pass'. Thirdly it's an attempt to shoe horn an anti filler agenda into a thread where it has no place, shifting the focus from a male on male crime to something women are doing 'wrong'.

“It's not that I am saying its acceptable, I cant even imagine it ever happening WITHOUT consent in the first instance.”

So now in addition to lacking smarts, you lack imagination.

Your statement echoes my mother’s when I told her I’d been raped. She’d never understood how it could happen, apparently. Yay. How nice for her.

So think of it this way- you can’t imagine it, yet it clearly happens and several people have been found guilty of it. The failure is yours.

Grow up and don’t make judgements about things you clearly don’t understand. Learn before you start making proclamations that display your ignorance.

Like other sensible people I agree that this is rubbish. ‘Love is love’ is not the future, legal boundaries around age, sex and consent are critical to safeguarding. Thankfully schools teach about consent.

We know that legally and biologically people cannot change sex, a male can’t become female and a female cannot become male. However a man can identify as a women and a woman can identify as a man but this is totally different to changing sex. Either way informed consent is critical.

I hope justice is served and the poor victim receives the help he needs.

Just to add that age makes no difference to these truths- the PP suggested that young people are much more open to having sex with someone without knowing their sex. This is absolute nonsense- the young people I know are every bit as clear about their sexual orientation as my generation and would not accept that anyone had the right to deceive them.

Sex is not a human right

Choosing to not have sex with someone is a human right.

If you chose to be deceptive in order to have sex with someone, you are denying them their human rights and engaging in abuse of that person.

It doesn't matter why someone doesn't want to have sex with you, you are not entitled to a sexual relationship. No-one is. Just because a person chooses to be transgender, does not make them more entitled to have sex than any one else.

I know nothing about you, but I hear your last sentence in the voice of Adrian Dunbar! 😅

I’m waiting for something about Mary, Joseph and the wee donkey!

When you take yourself out of mainstream
sexual orientation with body mods, you’re going to see an impact on the size of your dating pool. That’s for you to resolve, not everyone else to comply.

India Willoughby suggests that the ruling provides clear evidence of discrimination against trans people. His point being that ‘cis’ people are not forced to disclose their sex, only trans people are.

This exemplifies how gender identity can consume people to the extent that it impedes their capacity to process wider information. His capacity to overlook sexual orientation as the issue at hand is a big red flag.

Just in case anyone was in doubt that India has the ethics of an alley cat, he pops up to remind us.

We declare our sex by not pretending to be the opposite sex.

People also declare their sex on dating apps by selecting the appropriate category and not the category they want to represent them.

Yes. It's not a lack of making a declaration that's the problem, its actively taking steps to conceal sex or deceive a partner.

There are many factors that can affect this - online dating, filtered/altered photos, capacity wrt drugs/drink, vulnerabilities (maybe age, maybe perceptual), and the lengths to which some people go are extraordinary. I'm not just talking about extreme body modification surgery, but some of the sex by deception cases in the past have involved very elaborate set ups, including blindfolds and meeting only at night, controlling the environment, disguising voice, etc.

I wonder how non disclosure of sex by a 'cis' person would play out in court. "This woman had sex with my client while presenting as a woman, and made statements intended to lead my client to believe she was a woman. She failed to disclose to my client that she was in fact a woman. This led to my client consenting to sex with a person he took to be a woman, who had led him to believe she was a woman, and who he later discovered was actually was a woman".

Exactly!

In IW’s very confused version of the world, ‘woman’ and ‘female’ reflect identity rather than material reality, and so ‘deception’ isn’t a phenomenon that can arise - people are who they say they are and that’s that. This is why he is up in arms that cis people aren’t required to explicitly confirm who they are but trans people are.

For the majority of people, whose brains aren’t addled by gender ideology, the category error IW makes is as baffling as stating ‘the theory of evolution is 3 meters long’.

Luckily it doesn't seem like this man has done anything other than lip filler and eyelashes. Hopefully he can clean up his behaviour and become capable of forming healthy relationships as a gay man.

He.

Well, it did happen. The Jury, unlike you, did believe the victim and did not blame him for the assault perpetrated upon him hence they found the offender guilty.

The Police and the CPS did not dismiss the victim as you have done, hence it proceeding to trial.

The offender has been convicted of this crime, will be setenced at a later date but is to be immediately placed on the Sex Offender Register.

Your attempts to justify with a screed of bizzare reasons to excuse what the offender has been found guilty of is offensive.

Your imagination, or lack of, is irrelevant the fact is the victim did not consent.

Thinking is not Windy’s strong point.

Hence the Windy poll not going his way either.

The Police and the CPS did not dismiss the victim as you have done, hence it proceeding to trial.

Well it was a man ...

India Willoughby is so fucking male that it makes me laugh. Everything about his persona screams man. The way he can't abide JKR not shutting up and kowtowing to him is so male. The dressing like a young person on a night out as a 60 something is so male. The "but you all fancy ME more don't you not her" polls are so male. The aggression and tantrums are so, so male.

The people who believe trans people have the right to rape by deception and that anyone who objects is a terrible bigot make me sick. This is another version of the age old "men are entitled to sex and women exist to give it to them" horror.

People don't have an entitlement to sex with anyone. It is never ok to lie and deceive and coerce and pressure people into sex. Being a man who pretends he is a woman doesn't make lying and deceiving and coercing someone into sex ok. If you are someone like Ciara, you have a serious mental disorder; I can feel sorry for you as I would anyone else with a serious mental disorder that has a significant impact on your life, but I'm not going to pretend that your serious mental disorder gives you the right to assault people.

People don't have an entitlement to sex with anyone.

That's only a social convention though. Not one I would like to lose.