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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
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14
RoseAndGeranium · 24/08/2025 11:02

Velmy · 22/08/2025 16:52

Some people don't want to fund them by giving them traffic, which is fair enough.

I stumbled across a cool app recently where you could search up a news story and it would show you comparisons of how the left, right and center-leaning media reported on it. Which bits of the story they highlighted, what language they used to describe the subject, what they omitted.

I guess I can’t altogether disagree. Boycotting is a legitimate form of protest, after all. My concern is that some people appear to be using the news/media as a comfort blanket to confirm their biases. It happens on both sides of the political divide, for sure — for instance I know someone who has become a climate change sceptic and absolutely refuses to engage with any material that addresses the issue of global warming or the evidence for it, and I suspect it’s partly because she enjoys living without the anxiety associated with impending climate apocalypse — but I think it’s especially widespread on the left. Cancel culture is an extreme manifestation of it, but I also have friends who will not look at a J K Rowling tweet, even on my phone, h absolutely refuse to read any of the more extended pieces she’s written about trans versus women’s rights, and get extremely upset if I try to talk about my concerns about, say, pubert blockers. (To be honest, they would probably no longer call me a friend.) They say it’s because of hate and toxicity but I think it’s actually fear of hearing things that disturb a view of the world that they find comfortable. I fear that the refusal even to look at any article in the Daily Mail — and I’ve seen it on multiple threads, always with other posters saying it’s ‘fair enough’ — is an extension of that self-cocooning. It’s surely not healthy for society that intelligent, educated people are so neurotically anxious about political ‘contamination’ or challenges to their accepted narratives that they refuse even to look at mainstream news sources that publish a different selection of stories and perspectives.

SerendipityJane · 24/08/2025 11:03

Boycotting is a legitimate form of protest

That can depend. Try boycotting Israeli goods and services and see how far you get.

AnSolas · 24/08/2025 11:39

TheseWordsAreMine · 22/08/2025 20:01

I read through this thread over the course of a few hours.

Fascinating stuff that made me feel, if I'm totally honest, so very old and not to mention quite sexually out dated in view of the current curriculum which is way more inclusive and fluid now than it was when I was at school.

I'm 45 and from the days when identifying wasn't even really heard of and I never heard of anyone actually practicing it, nor did I ever read about it.

Whilst I do believe in my own mind what she did was wrong because they were much younger back then and she probably looked much different, I think eventually the laws will have to change to reflect what the youth of today are growing up with and accepting as the new inclusive norm and a safer world for all.

Love is love is the theme of the future, not just today. It is only the biological aspect that is holding us to the ground in that respect that we do still see a difference between men and women. But then we also have non binary people of all ages who are not male, nor are they female. They change sometimes too on a daily or sometimes even an hourly basis.

One thing I notice is that this wouldn't have even been an issue to be considered had she not sent him a message confirming that before the age of 7 she had lived as a male. I cant see this being much of an issue in the future as it will be a much more inclusive and accepting, safer space for everyone.

I feel concern for everyone involved and wish them all the very best if they are reading this. xx

The offender was then and is still now a male.

Rape and sexual assault remains just rape and sexual assault no matter what the person choosing to offend calls themselves.

The current law and policy makes it very clear that the person choosing to engage in sexual contact has a legal obligation to obtain the freely given informed premission off the person being touched.

If you are suggesting that should change you are saying some rapes and sexual assaults should be legal.

AnSolas · 24/08/2025 11:47

TheseWordsAreMine · 22/08/2025 21:55

Was the biological woman there when it happend?

It's rather hard (pardon the pun) not to notice the difference. If it was in the dark I suppose that could happen. However, sex is sex at the end of the day, it's up to the two of them to find out what's happening before it takes place. You cant get around that unless they met in the dark and never saw each others bodies.

I don't really see how your scenario could ever happen in the first place. It rather paints the biological women as you explain in a rather bimbo like light that radiates only ignorance, even if they are in pitch black darkness.

What would the biological woman possibly think was going on other than a penis unless it was stated something was going to have to be added in order for that to take place? It's not rape no, she consented and I hope a woman like that in 2025 doesn't exist.

😬
Please dont ever sit on a jury.
Any jury.

AnSolas · 24/08/2025 12:43

DuesToTheDirt · 24/08/2025 10:15

I'm not sure, from the article, that the offence was rape, and that he used his penis. It says "sex acts", "sexual assualt" and "assault by penetration" and that Watkin pretended to be on "her" period so as not to be touched below the waist. Presumbably the penetration used something else.

Its the same Act but different section and both carry the same prison terms
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/42/contents

In UK law for "rape" here has to be use of a penis.

1. Rape
(1)A person (A) commits an offence if—
(a)he intentionally penetrates the vagina, anus or mouth of another person (B) with his penis,
(b)B does not consent to the penetration, and
(c)A does not reasonably believe that B consents.
(2)Whether a belief is reasonable is to be determined having regard to all the circumstances, including any steps A has taken to ascertain whether B consents.
(3)Sections 75 and 76 apply to an offence under this section.
(4)A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable, on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for life.

2. Assault by penetration
(1)A person (A) commits an offence if—
(a)he intentionally penetrates the vagina or anus of another person (B) with a part of his body or anything else,
(b)the penetration is sexual,
(c)B does not consent to the penetration, and
(d)A does not reasonably believe that B consents.
(2)Whether a belief is reasonable is to be determined having regard to all the circumstances, including any steps A has taken to ascertain whether B consents.
(3)Sections 75 and 76 apply to an offence under this section.
(4)A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable, on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for life.

Sexual Offences Act 2003

An Act to make new provision about sexual offences, their prevention and the protection of children from harm from other sexual acts, and for connected purposes.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/42/contents

5128gap · 24/08/2025 13:22

CassOle · 24/08/2025 10:18

That's a good point, he could have been advised to not wear make up etc..

I suspect his recent appearance was calculated so anyone looking at the photos would think the victim must have known, but his 'transphobia' meant he was angry and ashamed at finding a trans person attractive and so 'cried sexual assault'. This is something that's been used to discredit women rape victims, the suggestion they consented then were ashamed and regretful so 'cried rape'.

shuggles · 24/08/2025 16:33

SerendipityJane · 24/08/2025 10:45

However I have to wonder - genuinely - if it would have been a guilty verdict if the victim were a female?

Before answering that question, you have to ask if it would have gone to court had the victim been female ?

This is a really strange question to ask given that it's not a hypothetical question. There has already been a case of this and the legal precedent has already been set.

The courts have clearly established that yes, it's illegal for someone to lie about their sex to deceive a woman into having sex. I'm not sure why you thought it would be different, or why you didn't check to see if there were any such cases.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-65670212

Blade Silvano

Blade Silvano: Woman who pretended to be man guilty of sex assault

Blade Silvano duped a woman into believing she was a man in order to have sex with her.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-65670212

Velmy · 24/08/2025 19:40

RoseAndGeranium · 24/08/2025 11:02

I guess I can’t altogether disagree. Boycotting is a legitimate form of protest, after all. My concern is that some people appear to be using the news/media as a comfort blanket to confirm their biases. It happens on both sides of the political divide, for sure — for instance I know someone who has become a climate change sceptic and absolutely refuses to engage with any material that addresses the issue of global warming or the evidence for it, and I suspect it’s partly because she enjoys living without the anxiety associated with impending climate apocalypse — but I think it’s especially widespread on the left. Cancel culture is an extreme manifestation of it, but I also have friends who will not look at a J K Rowling tweet, even on my phone, h absolutely refuse to read any of the more extended pieces she’s written about trans versus women’s rights, and get extremely upset if I try to talk about my concerns about, say, pubert blockers. (To be honest, they would probably no longer call me a friend.) They say it’s because of hate and toxicity but I think it’s actually fear of hearing things that disturb a view of the world that they find comfortable. I fear that the refusal even to look at any article in the Daily Mail — and I’ve seen it on multiple threads, always with other posters saying it’s ‘fair enough’ — is an extension of that self-cocooning. It’s surely not healthy for society that intelligent, educated people are so neurotically anxious about political ‘contamination’ or challenges to their accepted narratives that they refuse even to look at mainstream news sources that publish a different selection of stories and perspectives.

Completely agree. It doesn't help that the line between 'news' and 'media' has never been more blurred, and that the social presences of many traditional news outlets are actually run entirely separately.

For example, the majority of the most extreme/ridiculous/bait-y Daily Mail articles seen on social media, which contribute to the criticism of the DM by the left, are actually a product of Mail Online, which has a US-based/curated editorial team pulling the strings. They exist to generate traffic, not to disseminate journalism, but they're presented in the exact same way in the exact same format and on the exact same platform as DM's news and opinion pieces.

My concern is that some people appear to be using the news/media as a comfort blanket to confirm their biases

100%. People naturally want to be 'right' or to feel like they're on the 'winning' side of an argument. It's always been the case, but it's gone into overdrive in the last decade thanks to the proliferation of social media and culture war politics.

People with particularly extreme/weird views used to be written off as the nutter on the street corner or the weirdo you'd try to avoid in the pub. Thanks to social media they've become emboldened by communities of thousands who have similar views.

COVID, and recent UK/US elections that played out across a mix of legacy media, social media and 'citizen journalism' drew lines in the sand. They made social and political issues personal.

It's no longer just a case of having your biases confirmed; people have made certain hot-button socio-political issues such a big part of their personality (either online or in the real world) that a disagreement over a certain issue becomes an attack on their character.

It’s surely not healthy for society that intelligent, educated people are so neurotically anxious about political ‘contamination’ or challenges to their accepted narratives that they refuse even to look at mainstream news sources that publish a different selection of stories and perspectives.

A lot of money has been (and continues to be) spent by various entities convincing people that what they read in the 'mainstream' media is lies.

I expect that the average person doesn't know, or doesn't care to know, how strict editorial processes are... particularly in the UK. You are extremely unlikely to read/see an outright fabrication of facts in a mainstream UK publication. You're almost as unlikely to see/read something that is poorly sourced.

Mainstream media is criticized for 'coving up' certain facts or stories, protecting people

The fact is though, people have been conditioned to distrust 'the narrative'. And things like COVID, which were handled poorly, threw fuel on that fire.

Intelligent, educated people had their lives and businesses ruined, were isolated from friends and loved ones, lost parents, saw their children's education interrupted...and every time they turned on the TV the mainstream media were telling them to crack on and bang pans on their doorstep for key workers. That's going to breed resentment and distrust.

And while I hate to say it, I do think that even intelligent, educated people are often happy to put the blinkers on for many issues for fear of being 'cancelled', or ostracized/made pariahs in their social circles.

FattyMcFattyArse · 25/08/2025 02:32

Looks to me like the deception started long before they even met.
www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4gmvgn8z7yo.amp

Transwoman accused of sexual assault after concealing male genitalia on date
Lins77 · 25/08/2025 08:51

The defence rests entirely on the fact that "she" is "blindingly obviously" (their words not mine) male. Like some posters on this thread, the idea is that there's no way the victim didn't know, and only complained because his mates were laughing at him (if true, I think this may have backfired).

Nevertheless the intent was clearly to deceive him, whether he was or wasn't actually deceived.

SionnachRuadh · 25/08/2025 09:00

Lins77 · 25/08/2025 08:51

The defence rests entirely on the fact that "she" is "blindingly obviously" (their words not mine) male. Like some posters on this thread, the idea is that there's no way the victim didn't know, and only complained because his mates were laughing at him (if true, I think this may have backfired).

Nevertheless the intent was clearly to deceive him, whether he was or wasn't actually deceived.

That's right, and since we don't know anything really about the victim, I'm wondering if he has some sort of impairment that means what's blindingly obvious to the average punter is not blindingly obvious to him. If so, that's even worse.

LoudlyProudlyHorrid · 25/08/2025 09:39

It seems like he and the victim were about 18 when this happened. I've seen a post by his sister saying when he was younger it would have been much harder to tell.
I'm the report I read, the victims mother has also met him once and had her suspicions. Also that the victim went outside to throw up when he found out. I hope his victim is now ok.

MarieDeGournay · 25/08/2025 10:07

SerendipityJane · 24/08/2025 10:45

However I have to wonder - genuinely - if it would have been a guilty verdict if the victim were a female?

Before answering that question, you have to ask if it would have gone to court had the victim been female ?

As shuggles pointed out, this isn't hypothetical - there have been at least three cases where the victim was a woman, who was misled by a woman into believing she was having sex with a man.

I'll be keeping an eye on what the sentence is in this case, as the three women were given hefty sentences of 8-10 years.

JamesWebbSpaceTelescope · 25/08/2025 10:14

I have a 19 year old son. There is a massive range in his friends - some a clearly adult men and some are still very fresh faced. Some it would be very hard to pretend to the the other sex and others could get away with it more easily.

We haven’t seen unfiltered photos from the time it took place to know if the offender has changed in looks significantly since then.

Lins77 · 25/08/2025 10:19

I do think it can often be harder to tell with the young (and the very old). A fresh faced teenage boy may (not necessarily will) pass more easily as a girl. My daughter's 6'3 boyfriend couldn't but her short, "pretty-faced" gay male friend definitely could.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 25/08/2025 10:30

MarieDeGournay · 25/08/2025 10:07

As shuggles pointed out, this isn't hypothetical - there have been at least three cases where the victim was a woman, who was misled by a woman into believing she was having sex with a man.

I'll be keeping an eye on what the sentence is in this case, as the three women were given hefty sentences of 8-10 years.

What Marie said. This is the first “trans woman” one that I’ve seen, it’s been women, Alex Sharpe would have certainly written about it if he had any examples of men being prosecuted.

TheseWordsAreMine · 25/08/2025 13:45

AnSolas · 24/08/2025 11:47

😬
Please dont ever sit on a jury.
Any jury.

Been there, done that, got the Tee.

AnSolas · 25/08/2025 14:04

TheseWordsAreMine · 25/08/2025 13:45

Been there, done that, got the Tee.

Mmmmmm...Another reason to support the UK keeping a large jury number.

Hoardasurass · 25/08/2025 15:37

TheseWordsAreMine · 22/08/2025 20:20

"Consent matters. Hence the conviction."

Yes, what I mean is, had she not pointed it out, he would have been none the wiser and would not have arrived in court.

He Watkins is male he lied about his sex and was convicted for it. He is a predatory male sex offender and not a she

murasaki · 25/08/2025 15:44

TheseWordsAreMine would have let this sex offender off due to his special identity had they been on the jury. That is deeply worrying.

Hoardasurass · 25/08/2025 16:06

ThatBlackCat · 24/08/2025 04:07

Fuck me! Jesus Christ. Jesus of Nazareth!! That person is the love child of Hulk Hogan and Sylvester Stallone! There is no....way.... a male could mistake that person for a female. NO....WAY!! Even Stevie Wonder wouldn't. So I have to ask; was the victim completely paralytic drunk? Because I don't know how this person was mistaken for any type of woman. I mean, I know men don't have the same ability to recognise sex the way women do, but this, this is just ridiculous. You have got to be fucking kidding.

Edited

That photo was taken days ago the sexual assaults happened in 2022 when the perpetrator was 18 and the victim was 17/18, at the time the perpetrator was using massive amounts of makeup and fillers along with a shit tonne of filters on his photos including the 1 with the fake boobs.
The other thing that you need to understand is that the defence was "he must have known I'm male" and as such it benefited his defence to appear as male as possible whilst still wearing female clothing hence the Isla Brison leggings with the handbag trying to hide his meat and veg.
Please stop blaming the victim

CleopatraSelene · 02/10/2025 01:50

SionnachRuadh · 21/08/2025 15:50

Gay panic exists among women just as it exists among men. Maybe a bit less, because I think women are inherently more likely to be bisexual, but the really important thing is that a woman is much less likely to injure or kill you.

It's one of the things that go with being same sex attracted in a society that's 95% opposite sex attracted. It's mitigated for gay men by their amazingly efficient hookup culture, but I doubt if there are many lesbians who haven't had the mortifying experience of trying to chat up a woman who turns out to be straight.

This is all fine as long as everyone understands that "no thank you" is the only response that's needed. Honesty is the best policy. It's deliberate deception that's the problem.

There is - and this is well known in the trans community - a subset of male "chasers" who consider themselves straight and have convinced themselves that sex with a penis-having transwoman definitely isn't gay. But those men actively seek out transwomen, and they can knock themselves out if that's their thing.

Agree with this. I thunk you could also say that 'straight panic' (ie. A straight person chatting up someone they know is gay) would be much more likely foe a lesbian, given that men are much more likely to think they can 'turn' lesbians than women are gay men, and much more likely to be a physical threat.

CleopatraSelene · 02/10/2025 03:45

JamieCannister · 21/08/2025 14:27

What do you mean by "gay panic" and "trans panic". This is about beign sexuial assaulted as a result of being lied to and not having given consent - trans status or sexual orientation is a side issue.

It is as applicable to a lesbians raped by a dishonest striaght man pretending to be a woman, so it is "heterosexual panic" as much as it is a gay or trans one.

This

lechiffre55 · 10/10/2025 13:54

Quote from the judge.
'Having seen you give evidence and your conduct throughout the trail, I am satisfied at the heart of your offending was your frustration at wanting sexual experiences with heterosexual males and, by definition, your need to deceive to achieve that - that frustration at not having a healthy outlet for sexual urges is hardly an unusual feature in sexual assault cases.'

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