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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Your Corbyn/Sultana Party - Discussion thread

1000 replies

fromorbit · 19/08/2025 08:38

The new left party is going to have significant implications for gender and sex discussions on the left in the UK and in wider political debate as well. Lets talk about it.

Four of its prospective MPs are Gaza independents whose votes and comments in the Commons indicate a social conservative background . One of them Adnan Hussain has already got into a row on X with prospective members over his social conservatism.

The hilarious breakdown of the Islamo-left alliance
The progressive left has suddenly noticed that most British Muslims are not exactly woke.
This uneasy marriage got a reality check last week when a Green Party councillor and practising Muslim, Mothin Ali, appeared reluctant to sign a set of ‘pledges’ on behalf of the LGBTQIA+ Greens, Feminist Greens and other similar groups. The MP for Blackburn, ‘Gaza Independent’ Adnan Hussain, then waded into the debate. ‘It’s no secret that Muslims tend to be socially conservative’, Hussain said. ‘Is there a space on the left to create a broad enough church to allow Muslims an authentic space, just as it does other minority groups?’
https://www.spiked-online.com/2025/08/04/the-hilarious-breakdown-of-the-islamo-left-alliance/

The initial statement for Your Party focuses on poverty, fighting the system and Gaza, but makes no mention of progressive social issues, . This already signals something significant.
https://www.yourparty.uk/statement

Zarah Sultana on the other hand has already signaled out trans rights as a key principal in a recent interview which has received push back from others. Discussion here:

The Elephant in the Room for Zara Sultana’s “Your Party”
https://labourheartlands.com/the-elephant-in-the-room/
But here’s the rub. Sultana also pledged to “resolutely” advocate for a pro-trans socialist programme. She insists these discussions must happen openly and democratically.

That sounds fine in theory. In practice, the left has already shown itself utterly incapable of having this conversation without collapsing into authoritarian cancel culture.

Can the Left Have an Honest Trans Debate Without Cancelling Women?

For years, women who raise legitimate questions about the impact of gender self-ID on female-only spaces, or about the safeguarding implications highlighted by the Cass Review, have been branded as bigots and driven out of the movement. “Demonising trans people” is often code for “asking difficult but necessary questions.” If Your Party repeats this mistake, it will bleed support from countless socialist women before it even begins.

The truth is, many women will not get involved in this project precisely because of the Corbyn–Sultana line on trans issues. Others may hope the problem quietly goes away. It won’t. Nor is this a side issue: women’s rights are not negotiable add-ons to socialism; they are foundational. To ignore them is to build on sand.

TAs online and who are planning to join are already girding up for war, it is looking messy.

I can see a number of factions inside the new party who are going to make things complicated:

Muslim social conservatives - as mentioned they will be a major part of the party's voting bloc.

Old school Marxists who regard gender ideology as neo liberal capitalist identity politics and a distraction from class.

Realists who will see gender stuff as a marginal issue which needs to be sidelined because it is so toxic and unpopular with the general public.

Last but certainly not least actual left wing feminists who see through gender nonsense and are not going to be quiet about it !!

I expect fireworks over gender at the the party's initial conference supposedly to be held in November. TAs will attempt to make genderism a key principal of the party and will face resistance. Whether it happens or not it will be another nail in the TAs attempt to pretend the left inherently back neoliberal capitalist ideas like genderism. The big terfy mother elephant is going to be at the conference because women keep doing awkward things like existing and saying things.

Corbyn's position is going to be a focus in this because for all his occasional signalling on trans issues like stating pronouns and saying mantras it is not a core issue for him, and moreover he doesn't believe in it narrowly . His circles have long contained gender critical people who he has refused to cancel, because Corbyn for all his faults believes in open debate. So I think this could be a wedge issue between those around Sultana and Corbyn. There are already signs of disagreements between them over other issues like antisemitism:
Sultana: Corbyn 'capitulated' on antisemitism definition
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c79lr40rqelo

Statement — Your Party

https://www.yourparty.uk/statement

OP posts:
Thread gallery
97
LittlePigRobinson · 20/08/2025 14:23

MaturingCheeseball · 20/08/2025 14:16

I agree and I think they could be sued for misrepresentation with “green” in the name. Long gone are the days of Jonathan Porrit.

Ahh, Jonathan Porrit.
It was seeing him talk that first got my attention re: environmental matters.

I wonder what he thinks of the current Green Party and their antics?

FKAT · 20/08/2025 18:14

I would love to vote Green. But proper Green not Climatranistine Green.

moderate · 20/08/2025 19:16

LittlePigRobinson · 20/08/2025 14:23

Ahh, Jonathan Porrit.
It was seeing him talk that first got my attention re: environmental matters.

I wonder what he thinks of the current Green Party and their antics?

Robin Harper, the UK's first Green parliamentarian, doesn't mince his words: https://www.holyrood.com/news/view,robin-harper-scottish-greens-have-lost-the-plot

Pluvia · 20/08/2025 20:04

The Greens (particularly in Scotland) have lost all but a tiny few of their erstwhile "centre left but not mad" members.

Not in Scotland, but this woman, Jude English, had her membership of the party revoked for whistleblowing about safeguarding and governance issues:
https://greensinexile.org.uk/exile-jude-english

I heard her talk about her experience and it is shocking. To describe the party as shambolic, sexist and lacking due process and governance would underplay the mess it's in. As you say, @moderate , the sensible older centre-left stalwarts, particularly the women, are being driven out.

Exile Jude English - Greens in Exile

Jude English is a Green Party whistleblower. She was suspended after a malicious complaint was made against her in retaliation.

https://greensinexile.org.uk/exile-jude-english

DuesToTheDirt · 20/08/2025 20:21

LittlePigRobinson · 20/08/2025 12:37

And Gender woo woo.
It's very sad what the Greens have become. Their focus should be on the environment FFS at both country and local level. Campaigning for clean rivers, against air pollution, supporting green spaces, sustainable farming practices etc etc

I voted for them so many times because I truly believed they could bring environmental issues to local and national politics.

It make me so sad and angry that now it's all Gaza and non binary/trans stuff and the environment has been sidelined.

Sadly I think a lot of voters are still unaware of the batshittery and vote "Green" because they think they are voting for the planet.

LittlePigRobinson · 20/08/2025 20:23

moderate · 20/08/2025 19:16

Robin Harper, the UK's first Green parliamentarian, doesn't mince his words: https://www.holyrood.com/news/view,robin-harper-scottish-greens-have-lost-the-plot

😂😂😂
He's not wrong

SionnachRuadh · 20/08/2025 20:27

I mean there's an even chance that the next leader of the GPEW will be a guy who promises he can make your boobs bigger with hypnosis.

This is not a serious party. You wouldn't catch Stalin or Sir Stafford Cripps making those kind of promises.

Lalgarh · 20/08/2025 21:17

Likewise, Sultana is planning to do the chicken run from Coventry, where she has no hope of retaining her seat, and it's being trailed that she will run against Shabana Mahmood in Birmingham Ladywood. If she thinks she's going to win Ladywood on a TWAW platform, she is a very silly young woman.

Mahmood faced a campaign in her constituency that was telling devout Muslims it's haram to vote. It got very very nasty there and in Jess Phillip's' constituency there were tyres slashed

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/nov/13/labour-tells-watchdog-of-police-failures-over-intimidation-of-mp-shabana-mahmood-and-supporters-election

This is all very reminiscent of the atmosphere when George Galloway got in for the first time for respect in Bethnal Green. Labour put up a female Muslim candidate against him after he pushed Oona King (at the time she noted it was 1st sighting of opponents pointing out her Jewish heritage to disapproving electorate rather than her black heritage) but rumours were put out that she had a "white boyfriend" .

I think Salma Yacqoob is part the Your Party head honchos as well. Again when Naz Shah was running in Bradford against George Galloway he claimed she'd SPENT THE NIGHT AT A MALES HOUSE. Sistah Salma was every inch the handmaiden in promoting herself as a Virtuous lady of honour until even she got fed up with GGs rape apologism.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/oct/27/battle-to-become-west-midlands-mayor-has-revived-memories-of-clan-rivalry-and-misogyny

I note this BC Sultana is from the Mirpuri community. And has recently 'married out'.

Labour tells watchdog of police failures over intimidation of MP and supporters

Party documents police failings to intervene in incidents involving opponents of Shabana Mahmood during elections

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/nov/13/labour-tells-watchdog-of-police-failures-over-intimidation-of-mp-shabana-mahmood-and-supporters-election

UnpaintedLily · 20/08/2025 21:22

I can't summon much interest in the Jezbollah party. I don't particularly care if it splits what used to be the ABT vote.

Corbyn has never been interested in the climate and biodiversity crises or in equality for women. In fact I'm not sure he's interested in domestic politics full stop. The geographical appeal of his new outfit also seems very limited: there are a lot more constituencies where Corbyn’s antipathy to any kind of patriotism goes down like a cup of cold sick than there are constituencies where the Muslim vote is large enough for banging on about Gaza to swing the seat.

SionnachRuadh · 20/08/2025 22:28

In a Sultana v Mahmood match up, it's probably significant that Mahmood is the only Labour MP I can think of who openly admits to being socially conservative. If the plan is to make a sectarian appeal to devout Muslims it doesn't work so well with Sultana as your candidate. A male candidate might benefit from a double standard but I don't think Sultana will.

Also, Mahmood is very deeply rooted in her constituency, and she's what you might call a tough broad. Not only in terms of her personality but also because she's had a thorough training in the Tom Watson school of bare knuckle politics.

LibertyKnickers · 20/08/2025 22:49

So very reminiscent of these storied images.

Your Corbyn/Sultana Party - Discussion thread
Your Corbyn/Sultana Party - Discussion thread
TempestTost · 21/08/2025 01:22

Pluvia · 20/08/2025 08:59

But it's also the case that these are people who are citizens, and can join political parties, and political parties aren't just prescriptive. Their views are also formed by the people who belong to them. If, 25 years from now, the population as a whole has a differernt set of ideas about rights, social norms and the law will change to reflect that over time.

You'd hope that would be how things work, but Labour, in particular, is more authoritarian than I'd suspected.

I joined the Labour Party five years ago in order to have a say about a particular issue — women's rights and the dangers of gender ideology and men identifying into women's single-sex spaces and opportunities. I've been active in my CLP: set up a women's branch, been an official delegate at conference for the last couple of years. I've always been careful about the way I express my views, always polite and friendly, never confrontational. Most of the people I encounter in the CLP are GC but too scared to say anything because we have a couple of prominent people with trans/ non-binary children. Then in April we had the SC ruling — so my previously 'difficult' opinions were sanctioned by the law. But everything remotely sex-realist is still shut down. My attempts to stand as a Labour councillor at any level ( town and county) have been blocked and I've been told on the quiet that my card's been marked and there's no point in continuing to try.

I have no doubt this is the case. I was really speaking more big picture - if long term the populations views on issues change, what political parties offer will end up changing too.

I think some who assume immigrants will always vote more o the left could potentially end up surprised by what happens to their political environment.

Retiredfromthere · 21/08/2025 07:49

LibertyKnickers · 20/08/2025 22:49

So very reminiscent of these storied images.

I think you need to explain. What significance of these images to this discussion. People sat around a table (they could all be trans but what would that matter?) So context please. Is the non -sporting picture of an all woman short list for a political party? What is your purpose in sharing these here. You are being very cryptic

Lalgarh · 21/08/2025 11:08

About June time when the US was bombing Iran I was out and saw one flat that was displaying a pride flag and an Iran one, which was uh, interesting

moderate · 21/08/2025 21:16

Retiredfromthere · 21/08/2025 07:49

I think you need to explain. What significance of these images to this discussion. People sat around a table (they could all be trans but what would that matter?) So context please. Is the non -sporting picture of an all woman short list for a political party? What is your purpose in sharing these here. You are being very cryptic

I can't speak to the poster's purpose, but I think that your "they could all be trans" is very relevant here. People have had enough of being taken for idiots.

fromorbit · 31/08/2025 02:26

Hussain has been agreeing with gender crits on twitter. Lots of TAs very upset including Windy. This was the day before Corbyn came to Blackburn to meet Hussain at a party rally.

Adnan Hussain MP

I agree, women's rights and safe spaces should not be encroached upon.

Safe third spaces should be an alternative option.
Quote

Manchester Feminists
MancFemNet
·
Aug 29
Replying to @LesMs38 and @AdnanHussainMP
The left purports to have a material analysis of society, and needs to
have a material analysis of sex too.
A new left wing party should recognise this reality and not parrot the same neoliberal idea of gender ideology.

India Willoughby

Aug 29
How do you feel about separate toilets for Muslims, AdnanHussainMP
? A lot of people very worried at the moment. Got to protect “women’s rights” and safe spaces. Hypocrite. Opposes discrimination against himself - preaches it against others. Spoiler alert: Women who are trans are women ✌️🏳️‍⚧️. Very telling how quiet jeremycorbyn and zarahsultana are on this.

Then a few hours later this happened:

Zarah Sultana MP
@zarahsultana
·
Aug 29
I’ve always stood with the trans community, and I always will.

The same forces targeting migrants and Muslims are attacking LGBTQ+ people, especially trans people.

Our safety is in solidarity. None of us are free until all of us are free.

That’s the new party we’re building. Bigotry has no place in it.

OP posts:
ZigZagJigsaw · 31/08/2025 04:16

Pluvia · 19/08/2025 21:20

I campaigned, in a safe Labour seat, for Labour in the 2019 election and every day we were issued with a list of more special offers designed to tempt voters to vote for him. Frankly people, even people who had a history of voting Labour, just stood on their doorsteps and laughed at us trying to sell Corbyn's Labour. Working class people had very little time for him because he was seen to be so concerned with Venezuela and international stuff. He was adored by a handful of very middle class people — students, university lecturers and council management — living in naice areas and with decent cars on their drives.

He's also very popular with one woman I know. When politics are discussed she always reverts to her hatred of Margaret Thatcher. I've known her long enough to know that back in the 80s she put up something like £11k so that her mum could buy the family council house in Hackney. Even in those days it was a ridiculously low price for a 3-bedroom house in London. The mother then gave my acquaintance the house, to avoid IHT when she died, which she did a decade or so later. My acquaintance lived in the house for a few years and borrowed money against it (by now Hackney was gentrifying and prices had gone through the roof) to buy several properties in places like Shoreditch and Hoxton and Stratford on a BTL basis. She woman now lives in a beautiful period house in Chiswick. She sold the rest of her property portfolio off at the height of the 2022-3 property boom. She boasts about how little capital gains tax she managed to get away with.

She seems utterly oblivious to the fact that it was Maggie Thatcher and the Tories who have helped her every step of the way to make money. She's done everything she can, despite being a good socialist, to avoid paying tax. Quite what she expects to happen if Corbyn gets in I don't know. It doesn't seem to have occurred to her that it's people like her, in properties worth £2+million and with more millions invested, who'll be taxed more.

She sounds like a role model for Angela Raynor.

Lalgarh · 31/08/2025 08:31

fromorbit · 31/08/2025 02:26

Hussain has been agreeing with gender crits on twitter. Lots of TAs very upset including Windy. This was the day before Corbyn came to Blackburn to meet Hussain at a party rally.

Adnan Hussain MP

I agree, women's rights and safe spaces should not be encroached upon.

Safe third spaces should be an alternative option.
Quote

Manchester Feminists
MancFemNet
·
Aug 29
Replying to @LesMs38 and @AdnanHussainMP
The left purports to have a material analysis of society, and needs to
have a material analysis of sex too.
A new left wing party should recognise this reality and not parrot the same neoliberal idea of gender ideology.

India Willoughby

Aug 29
How do you feel about separate toilets for Muslims, AdnanHussainMP
? A lot of people very worried at the moment. Got to protect “women’s rights” and safe spaces. Hypocrite. Opposes discrimination against himself - preaches it against others. Spoiler alert: Women who are trans are women ✌️🏳️‍⚧️. Very telling how quiet jeremycorbyn and zarahsultana are on this.

Then a few hours later this happened:

Zarah Sultana MP
@zarahsultana
·
Aug 29
I’ve always stood with the trans community, and I always will.

The same forces targeting migrants and Muslims are attacking LGBTQ+ people, especially trans people.

Our safety is in solidarity. None of us are free until all of us are free.

That’s the new party we’re building. Bigotry has no place in it.

Over in the green party, Norwich young green Trans Spokesperson and Tw Jenny knight is backing Mothin Ali for deputy spokesmxn of the party

https://m.youtube.com/shorts/bLHTjBa5Bgs

fromorbit · 31/08/2025 12:00

Summary from a few days ago on the rival factions inside the party

Inside Your Party’s rival factions
Corbyn and Sultana’s left-wing alternative is slowly emerging. But tensions persist.

https://archive.is/vF29R

OP posts:
fromorbit · 31/08/2025 12:15

Lalgarh · 31/08/2025 08:31

Over in the green party, Norwich young green Trans Spokesperson and Tw Jenny knight is backing Mothin Ali for deputy spokesmxn of the party

https://m.youtube.com/shorts/bLHTjBa5Bgs

Interesting. Mothin has been being walking a tightrope. He has been saying nice things to gender crits too.

Worth posting that in the Greens election thread.
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5328986-greens-internal-drama-warms-up?

Greens internal drama warms up | Mumsnet

New long article looking at the drama inside the Greens over biology suddenly existing again despite their best efforts. *How the Green Party forgot...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5328986-greens-internal-drama-warms-up

OP posts:
Lalgarh · 31/08/2025 13:12

Have done.

Factions are forming in the Corbzy Sultana project

https://nitter.net/Maomentum_/status/1958870320057585781#m

SionnachRuadh · 31/08/2025 14:06

The neo-Trot sects, as usual, are all buzzing around hoping to gain recruits and influence.

I'm really not seeing any evidence that there's anything here to attract anyone who isn't already a huge Corbyn fan. And even people who like Corbyn might have doubts about a Corbyn party.

OP posts:
RainbowBagels · 31/08/2025 15:26

Lalgarh · 31/08/2025 13:12

Have done.

Factions are forming in the Corbzy Sultana project

https://nitter.net/Maomentum_/status/1958870320057585781#m

Edited

Maomentum Lol! That's a great name.

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