Your Corbyn/Sultana Party - Discussion thread

[fromorbit]

The new left party is going to have significant implications for gender and sex discussions on the left in the UK and in wider political debate as well. Lets talk about it.

Four of its prospective MPs are Gaza independents whose votes and comments in the Commons indicate a social conservative background . One of them Adnan Hussain has already got into a row on X with prospective members over his social conservatism.

The hilarious breakdown of the Islamo-left alliance
The progressive left has suddenly noticed that most British Muslims are not exactly woke.
This uneasy marriage got a reality check last week when a Green Party councillor and practising Muslim, Mothin Ali, appeared reluctant to sign a set of ‘pledges’ on behalf of the LGBTQIA+ Greens, Feminist Greens and other similar groups. The MP for Blackburn, ‘Gaza Independent’ Adnan Hussain, then waded into the debate. ‘It’s no secret that Muslims tend to be socially conservative’, Hussain said. ‘Is there a space on the left to create a broad enough church to allow Muslims an authentic space, just as it does other minority groups?’
https://www.spiked-online.com/2025/08/04/the-hilarious-breakdown-of-the-islamo-left-alliance/

The initial statement for Your Party focuses on poverty, fighting the system and Gaza, but makes no mention of progressive social issues, . This already signals something significant.
https://www.yourparty.uk/statement

Zarah Sultana on the other hand has already signaled out trans rights as a key principal in a recent interview which has received push back from others. Discussion here:

The Elephant in the Room for Zara Sultana’s “Your Party”
https://labourheartlands.com/the-elephant-in-the-room/
But here’s the rub. Sultana also pledged to “resolutely” advocate for a pro-trans socialist programme. She insists these discussions must happen openly and democratically.

That sounds fine in theory. In practice, the left has already shown itself utterly incapable of having this conversation without collapsing into authoritarian cancel culture.

Can the Left Have an Honest Trans Debate Without Cancelling Women?

For years, women who raise legitimate questions about the impact of gender self-ID on female-only spaces, or about the safeguarding implications highlighted by the Cass Review, have been branded as bigots and driven out of the movement. “Demonising trans people” is often code for “asking difficult but necessary questions.” If Your Party repeats this mistake, it will bleed support from countless socialist women before it even begins.

The truth is, many women will not get involved in this project precisely because of the Corbyn–Sultana line on trans issues. Others may hope the problem quietly goes away. It won’t. Nor is this a side issue: women’s rights are not negotiable add-ons to socialism; they are foundational. To ignore them is to build on sand.

TAs online and who are planning to join are already girding up for war, it is looking messy.

I can see a number of factions inside the new party who are going to make things complicated:

Muslim social conservatives - as mentioned they will be a major part of the party's voting bloc.

Old school Marxists who regard gender ideology as neo liberal capitalist identity politics and a distraction from class.

Realists who will see gender stuff as a marginal issue which needs to be sidelined because it is so toxic and unpopular with the general public.

Last but certainly not least actual left wing feminists who see through gender nonsense and are not going to be quiet about it !!

I expect fireworks over gender at the the party's initial conference supposedly to be held in November. TAs will attempt to make genderism a key principal of the party and will face resistance. Whether it happens or not it will be another nail in the TAs attempt to pretend the left inherently back neoliberal capitalist ideas like genderism. The big terfy mother elephant is going to be at the conference because women keep doing awkward things like existing and saying things.

Corbyn's position is going to be a focus in this because for all his occasional signalling on trans issues like stating pronouns and saying mantras it is not a core issue for him, and moreover he doesn't believe in it narrowly . His circles have long contained gender critical people who he has refused to cancel, because Corbyn for all his faults believes in open debate. So I think this could be a wedge issue between those around Sultana and Corbyn. There are already signs of disagreements between them over other issues like antisemitism:
Sultana: Corbyn 'capitulated' on antisemitism definition
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c79lr40rqelo

Yeah, penis removed or we'll push you off a roof / hang you. These are Corbyn's friends.

The Shia clerics have a whole theological justification for it. As I understand it, they argue that if the soul and the body are misaligned, then the soul takes precedence and it's permissible to correct the body to bring it into alignment with the soul.

If you stripped away the religious terminology, that would sound quite familiar.

But yeah, even as a stopgap name, "Your Party" is really cringe.

There's a political party in Paraguay called the Authentic Radical Liberal Party. Now that's a name. Imagine my disappointment on discovering that their opponents are not called the Totally Legit Diamond Geezer Conservative Party.

" It's no secret that Muslims tend to be socially conservative. Is there space on the left to create a broad enough church to allow Muslims an authentic space, just as it does all other minority groups? "

https://x.com/AdnanHussainMP/status/1949926798411616689

However, when asked to what extent they agreed or disagreed that homosexuality should be legal in Britain, 18% said they agreed and 52% said they disagreed, compared with 5% among the public at large who disagreed. Almost half (47%) said they did not agree that it was acceptable for a gay person to become a teacher, compared with 14% of the general population.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/apr/11/british-muslims-strong-sense-of-belonging-poll-homosexuality-sharia-law

So 52% of Muslims think homosexuality should be illegal? How exactly does a left wing party allow an authentic space for them without betraying gay rights?

It is not about allowing Muslims a space, it is about treating minorities the same as anyone else, trying to attract those that agree on issues, the other 48%, trying to convincing some of the others but if that cannot be done there is nothing to be done.

It's not like the Conservatives are particularly inclined to those views on homosexuality either.

But it's also the case that these are people who are citizens, and can join political parties, and political parties aren't just prescriptive. Their views are also formed by the people who belong to them. If, 25 years from now, the population as a whole has a differernt set of ideas about rights, social norms and the law will change to reflect that over time.

The idea that this is only something that can move in one direction, "progress," is why many progressives are such mugs. And the reason is that they believe there is some objective thing called progress, and that is a faith position, in much the same way as a religious faith.

I don't quite understand why these guys want to be on the left anyway though? There are all kinds of conservative factions that aren't about neoliberal economics, they don't need to be on the left to find that.

Conservative Party conference has long been known as a massive gay hookup event.

It used to be Labour that was the socially conservative patriotic party, because it was the working class party, and had very strong contingents of Irish Catholics and Welsh Baptists as well as generic working class Brits. Today's Muslim communities, which are mostly very socially conservative, would fit pretty well in pre-1980s Labour. That's also why George Galloway gets on so well with them.

I don't think the Corbynite left get this. I think they listen to a woke leftist like Zarah Sultana, who's about as Muslim as John McDonnell is Catholic, and assume she represents some kind of median Muslim voter.

I don't think the Corbynite left get this. I think they listen to a woke leftist like Zarah Sultana, who's about as Muslim as John McDonnell is Catholic, and assume she represents some kind of median Muslim voter.
As a Leftist Asian, this is the thing that really grinds my gears about the 'progressive Left'. They think all brown people are the same- a poor oppressed homogeneous blob oppressed by evil westerners and just needing to be shown the correct way by the right thinking educated White people. So when a White person is a Tory they are just a Tory with political views they disagree with for example but when a Black or Brown person is a Tory they don't know their own mind, are slaves to their imperialist roots, race traitors, want to pull the bridge up behind them (because the British born children of people who legally came to Britain are the same as random young undocumented men turning up illegally cos they Brown innit) etc. They don't see the ethnic, racial class or educational differences between the homogeneous Black or Brown people.

It is basic sectarianism - similar to Northern Ireland and we all know the problems with that. It doesn't matter whether you are Catholic or Protestant there is a lot of dysfunctionality there.

Also not even all Muslims are going to go for that. A lot are going to stick with Labour or the Greens.

Moreover any form of Gaza party automatically creates space for identity politics on the right. Reform will have it on easy mode. That is a natural human reaction to that level of tribalism. If you go round saying what is happening in the Middle East is more important than what is happening in Bolton or Oxford you will get huge push back.

As many in the thread has been saying there are a BIG issues with the Islamic/Left alliance in that sooner or later it is going to fall apart. If this new party centres on universal traditional class issues it might have a chance of surviving and spreading, It is going to be a struggle to do that though because as others have said it is likely to focus on middle class protest concepts over real stuff.

However it is better to have these debates in the open - right now. The alt Left inside the UK have a chance to build a party and express themselves. If they screw that up by pretending that biology isn't real, or that most of the population in mainland UK in the 21st century will be attracted by a secretly religious themed party then that is their call.

Thread on the Miner's Gala 2025 here.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5373784-durham-miners-gala-womens-rights-are-human-rights?

There are plans to get an even bigger contingent of lefty pro-women matchers involved next year. Corbyn can do what he wants, but women are not going away and are not going to be silent. He is going to be so be busy turning different directions to avoid pesky women he won't know what to do. I don't know what Sultana is going to do at all.

His attitude is all over the place. He will do these public displays on gender stuff, but he is way more tolerant in private. Everyone knows this as mentioned on this thread and TAs are livid about it. I think this is one area where he is similar to Starmer.

Both of them want the whole gender/sex thing to go away so they can get back to talking about man stuff. Starmer has slipped more towards accepting reality, not because he really cares, but because he was forced to by women taking their rights back.

Likewise Corbyn drifted into where he is now because TAs on the left pushed him that way.

It may be the gender drama inside the new party will force him to take a side. He is going to hate that.

But it's also the case that these are people who are citizens, and can join political parties, and political parties aren't just prescriptive. Their views are also formed by the people who belong to them. If, 25 years from now, the population as a whole has a differernt set of ideas about rights, social norms and the law will change to reflect that over time.

You'd hope that would be how things work, but Labour, in particular, is more authoritarian than I'd suspected.

I joined the Labour Party five years ago in order to have a say about a particular issue — women's rights and the dangers of gender ideology and men identifying into women's single-sex spaces and opportunities. I've been active in my CLP: set up a women's branch, been an official delegate at conference for the last couple of years. I've always been careful about the way I express my views, always polite and friendly, never confrontational. Most of the people I encounter in the CLP are GC but too scared to say anything because we have a couple of prominent people with trans/ non-binary children. Then in April we had the SC ruling — so my previously 'difficult' opinions were sanctioned by the law. But everything remotely sex-realist is still shut down. My attempts to stand as a Labour councillor at any level ( town and county) have been blocked and I've been told on the quiet that my card's been marked and there's no point in continuing to try.

My view is that some of the existing MPs or any defectors may retain their seat (Jeremy Corbyn for one) but it is unlikely to make any gains of significance.

Bloody Corbyn - I remember hearing and interview with him on R4 when The Sailsbury poisioning happened and when asked about Putin and how he would deal with him started to bang on about Russias awful history on LGBTQ+ rights.
Him and his new party will be an absolute pointless shower of nonsense but may make it easier for Reform to gain ground, which is the worst thing about it.

I've read a lot of dystopian SF novels but can't recall one as bleak as a world with a choice of Reform or Your Party on a ballot paper.

One of the many great lines in the film In Bruges is when an arms dealer is showing Ralph Feinnes an uzi. Feinnes' character responds "I want a normal gun for a normal person".

Where is the normal party for normal people in the UK?

Sultanarama would be my pick

The 'Your Party' tag sounds like a cheap marketing campaign. Its embryonic leaders need to give it direction not promise that it will be all things to all people. It sounds a lot like they are just trying to avoid the inherent contradictions in founding a left leaning party but attempting to hoover up Muslim votes. Party democracy ifs all well and good but also means a lot of argument, a lot of disagreement and infighting.

Jezbollah

Anyone who votes Green is de facto voting Gaza.

Unfortunately for us I think that is covered by Labour and the Conservatives

It's also a legacy of how Labour has patronised Muslim communities for decades. Waving Palestinian flags and making that the lightning rod issue is much easier and cheaper than, let's say, providing employment opportunities or good education or cleaning up rat-infested housing estates.

It's certainly easier than facing up to how corrupt Labour councils have been implicated in grooming gang scandals.

And Gender woo woo.
It's very sad what the Greens have become. Their focus should be on the environment FFS at both country and local level. Campaigning for clean rivers, against air pollution, supporting green spaces, sustainable farming practices etc etc

I voted for them so many times because I truly believed they could bring environmental issues to local and national politics.

It make me so sad and angry that now it's all Gaza and non binary/trans stuff and the environment has been sidelined.

They have patronised certain parts of the Muslim community. None of the things that apparently protect 'Muslim communities' protect the women and girls within those communities. (living with men who sleep around with children, pass diseases into the home, cousin marriages meaning they end up caring for severely disabled children, taking away their votes and rights to work, sharia law leaving them destitute on the say so of their 'husbands' etc.) They have listened to male community leaders to the detriment of women and girls.

I suppose another thing is potential defections. I know for certain that a bunch of Tory MPs are looking at the polls and wondering if they'd stand a better chance of being re-elected as either Reform or Lib Dem.

If the Greens could stake out a firm position of "centre left but not mad" and work on their credibility, some Labour MPs might make a similar calculation. I'd say that becomes much less likely under a Polanski leadership.

I think Your Party will struggle to get Labour defectors. Sultana is a special case because she's unpopular in Coventry and has been at risk of deselection for years. Neither McDonnell nor Abbott have shown much interest, though Starmer might be dumb enough to kick them out of Labour and leave them no option (if they even stand in 2029, which is unlikely on age and health grounds).

But what does "voting Gaza" even mean? it's not like the UK govt has much leverage in actually doing something about what's going on in Gaza. So is this nothing more than a rather juvenile, virtue-signalling 'protest vote'?

The Greens (particularly in Scotland) have lost all but a tiny few of their erstwhile "centre left but not mad" members.

I wish they would just relinquish the name so that some environmentalists could pick it up and run with it.

I agree and I think they could be sued for misrepresentation with “green” in the name. Long gone are the days of Jonathan Porrit.