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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Sturgeon accuses JK of toxic trans debate

421 replies

Tootsweets23 · 12/08/2025 08:33

The world has probably had enough of sturgeon to last a lifetime but today’s ‘revelation’ from her shite book is just infuriating.

A long catalogue of poor me, I’m pure of spirit, any criticism is toxic, everyone else is malevolent.

Despite calling people who don’t agree with her idiotic bill racists, homophobes and misogynists, here she says JK’s teeshirt didn’t elevate the debate or illuminate the issues.

And then goes on to say that this issue wasn’t really that important to mainstream voters but we are all guilty of hysteria.

And she wishes she had the courage to call a rapist female.

For someone allegedly politically astute this book is a very stupid strategy. Slow hand clap.

Nicola Sturgeon accuses JK Rowling of creating ‘toxic’ trans debate

https://www.thetimes.com/article/29160158-03f7-4afc-bce6-38a425c72df0?shareToken=3cf893fc3e26d2e2b4ced9467395d1d5

Nicola Sturgeon accuses JK Rowling of creating ‘toxic’ trans debate

Former first minister says author stoked ‘vile’ attacks that left her fearing for her physical safety

https://www.thetimes.com/article/29160158-03f7-4afc-bce6-38a425c72df0?shareToken=3cf893fc3e26d2e2b4ced9467395d1d5

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33
NotMyRealAccount · 12/08/2025 10:29

GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 12/08/2025 10:21

Let’s hope the book ends up largely remaindered. TBH I can’t imagine many people shelling out whatever it is for (presumably) a hardback.

Especially when money is a little tight for many of us and we might have to choose between spending this month's book budget on a toe-curling political memoir or a new Strike novel.

usedtobeaylis · 12/08/2025 10:30

Sorry haven't RTFT but I assume Nicola Sturgeon also spoke about the abuse of Joanna Cherry that she enabled? To the point of criminal convictions?

Instructions · 12/08/2025 10:30

There is a natural limit to rational debate when one side of the argument is so bloody irrational

There are only so many times one can calmly discuss the issues with people whose response to the statement "a woman is an adult human female" is "fascist bigots like you are literally killing trans people"

usedtobeaylis · 12/08/2025 10:31

Violetparis · 12/08/2025 09:21

The article says she wishes she had the courage to call Isla Bryson female, in the interview last night she agreed he was biologically male !

She what?!

Tiredofwhataboutery · 12/08/2025 10:34

mrshoho · 12/08/2025 10:13

It feels as if there must be a personal connection somewhere in all this. It's painful to see her making an absolute arse of herself.

I think she genuinely thought she was marching along with a progressive Europe. Self ID has been introduced in Belgium, Denmark, Finland, Germany, Iceland, Ireland, Luxembourg, Malta, Norway, Portugal, Spain, and Switzerland.

I do wonder if it hadn’t of been for JK Rowling and Isla Bryson whether it would of all gone differently and Sturgeon would be smug and victorious and the U.K. would of joined that list.

Beowulfa · 12/08/2025 10:34

I do wonder what the market for political memoirs is and how it justifies the large advances. Who really reads them outside of political journos (who presumably expect free copies)? Apparently Johnson's book was surprisingly dull.

Scottishskifun · 12/08/2025 10:34

Sturgeon is being Sturgeon anyone who disagrees with her is clearly a terrible person and she is always right and must never be challenged.

You only need to watch back to some of her covid podiums and responses to journalists to see what she's like.

I poured myself a glass of bubbles the day she resigned!

RedToothBrush · 12/08/2025 10:35

More than anything I think we HAVE been rational, reasoned and fair the vast majority of the time.

But this is a woman who told us repeatedly we weren't. And that polite, reasoned and rational arguments were bigotry and prejudiced even when supported by damning evidence and examples. We couldn't have done it right, however we did it in her eyes.

Then she comes up with this crap to save her reputation and legacy.

It's unbelievably disrespectful.

I think fuck off is a very fair, very rational and very reasonable response to that sheer audacity of her narcissism, lack of taking responsibility and her trying to shift the blame for her own poor decision making and tone deafness to others.

I really hope she gets taken to pieces for this work of fiction.

SerendipityJane · 12/08/2025 10:36

Beowulfa · 12/08/2025 10:34

I do wonder what the market for political memoirs is and how it justifies the large advances. Who really reads them outside of political journos (who presumably expect free copies)? Apparently Johnson's book was surprisingly dull.

It's all part and parcel of establishing the Sturgeon "brand" so that a comfortable retirement as a rentagobshite beckons.

LadyBracknellsHandbagg · 12/08/2025 10:39

Aaron95 · 12/08/2025 10:06

People can say "fuck off" all they want but it just further validates the point that it is not possible to hold any sort of rational debate on this topic. I'm not agreeing with Sturgeon's view on genderbut I do think she is right that it is no longer possible to discuss in a rational manner.

This is by no means the only topic where this is the case.

It was never rational or logical or reasonable to assert that people can change sex. Sturgeon and her cohorts decided to force an absurd, regressive, misogynistic, homophobic ideology onto the electorate, and anyone that objected to it by stating irrefutable evidence to the contrary, was demonised and hounded as bigots.

It was never possible to discuss this in a reasonable manner, because reason left the building as soon as they started trying to force us to believe that men can magically become women. She hasn’t stated a startling new truth, she hasn’t had a Damascene conversion on the road to obscurity, she’s simply covering her arse by stating something that she, and everyone else, has known all along. She just cynically ignored it in order to further her political career. The only difference between the two factions is that she has deliberately caused untold suffering and harm to many women and many vulnerable children, JKR has merely tried to prevent that.

Imperativvv · 12/08/2025 10:41

I really hope she gets taken to pieces for this work of fiction.

I should think it's going that way. She's not worth standing by now, even for people who might be ideologically inclined.

RIPMTV · 12/08/2025 10:45

She’s as thick as fuck, this one. No hope for her.

Alltheprettyseahorses · 12/08/2025 10:45

At no point was Sturgeon made even remotely unsafe by women's rights campaigners. FWS et al would never have dreamed of harming her. All Sturgeon got was disagreement because she was wrong and to weaponise that as making her unsafe is utterly disgraceful. 'Fuck off' is a perfectly rational and suitable response.

The women's rights campaigners not so much of course. SNP politicians grinning next to signs eg inciting the beheading of women, signs which there is no way they didn't see? Nothing. Actual attacks on women? Who cares, poor, terrified Nicola felt unsafe.

As an aside, I genuinely believe weakness is a currency in certain privileged circles. The expectation reward for cosplaying as unsafe is excessive sympathy and pandering to their every whim. A dominance display maybe. The correct response of course is don't be so ridiculous.

NeverOneBiscuit · 12/08/2025 10:46

She ‘didn’t feel safe.’

Says the woman who was practically offering to carry Graham Isla Bryson’s bags into the women’s prison for him.

That last stuttering tv interview where she sold her soul, to lie to a nation, that a male rapist was quite rightly in a women’s jail. For me there’s no coming back from that.

childofthe607080s · 12/08/2025 10:47

Discuss in a rational manner a fiction with people who basically refused any discussion, called any disagreement literal violence and then we are blamed for it becoming unpleasant ?

ok we’ll just go show what listening to the other side might mean- from now on we could sing all out points to the tune of humpty dumpy - would that make it pleasing ?

Self id was tout-ed
self id it had a great fall
all sturgeons horses and all of her men
couldn't put selfid together again

lcakethereforeIam · 12/08/2025 10:47

Suzanne Moore in the Telegraph

https://archive.ph/7i8C6

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/08/11/nicola-sturgeon-mea-culpa-gender-obsession-away-politics/

I like to think that Sturgeon's legacy is her picture in the newspapers always being paired with Isla Bryson in his pink leggings. They'll go together like Laurel and Hardy, Butch and Sundance, tatties and neeps.

I think the only way she can escape that might be kangaroo testicles in the jungle.

Oh! And she can fuck off too.

RedToothBrush · 12/08/2025 10:48

Lucy Hunter Blackburn AT lucyhunterb
I am surprised to learn that up to October 2022 there was scope for normal rational discussion with the Scottish Government over the GRR Bill. It didn't feel like by [checks notes] the start of stage 2 of the Bill. This is just delusional. We were there.

On 6 Oct 2022 “any hope of finding common ground disappeared”?

This woman is on another planet.

We'd spent years trying to get something approaching a normal conversation with either the SG or the relevant Committee at that point.

Fortunately, there's a book about this.

Even if it's one that's not acceptable to Jenny Niven and the Book Festival.

Here's blog about how the SG changed nothing after its second consultation and continued to cite offensive articles, misrepresent the contents of others and ignore inconvenient evidence.

https://murrayblackburnmackenzie.org/2022/05/20/has-the-scottish-government-undertaken-any-further-analysis-on-gender-recognition-reform-since-2019/

Reading the blog, given Sturgeon comments I refer to these two paragraphs

Paragraphs 8 and 9 omit relevant evidence on the impact of reform on: single-sex exceptions; social conventions; self-exclusion from single-sex services; single-sex provision and fear of speaking out; and female prisoners and prison staff. Despite its clear relevance, the reference to freedom of speech in paragraph 8 is silent on Forstater v CGD Europe, in which the Employment Appeal Tribunal ruled that ‘gender critical’ beliefs (broadly, a belief that sex is binary and immutable and that a person cannot change their sex) are ‘worthy of respect in a democratic society’.

The framing in paragraph 10 is misleading: the key concern relates to the risks associated with males as a sex-class, no matter how they identify. Males have much higher levels of violent and sexual offending, including against women. However, the EQIA effectively concludes that this does not apply to a particular subset of males simply because they describe themselves as having a particular identity. The narrow focus on incidents of sexual violence against women also excludes relevant evidence of impacts on women’s privacy, dignity, and feelings of safety, and potential harms against children. Parts 2 to10 below discuss these points, and other significant ommissions in more detail.

The idea that women weren't raising these concerns back then, in a polite reasonable manner is absurd.

This is Sturgeon trying to rewrite history because the actual course of events makes her look terrible and like evidence was deliberately suppressed because it didn't fit the agenda of her government.

Whose responsibility is this ultimately?

Obviously JKRowling's and her toxic t-shirts which incited hatred. FFS.

Has the Scottish Government undertaken any further analysis on gender recognition reform since 2019? - Murray Blackburn Mackenzie

On 2 March 2022 the Scottish Government published the Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill. On introducing the Bill Social Justice Secretary Shona Robison stated: ‘This Bill does not introduce any new rights for trans people. It is about simplifyi...

https://murrayblackburnmackenzie.org/2022/05/20/has-the-scottish-government-undertaken-any-further-analysis-on-gender-recognition-reform-since-2019/

lcakethereforeIam · 12/08/2025 10:50

Bet that t-shirt's worth a fortune now. Ta Nicola.

lechiffre55 · 12/08/2025 10:50

@RedToothBrush
"This is Sturgeon trying to rewrite history because the actual course of events makes her look terrible and like evidence was deliberately suppressed because it didn't fit the agenda of her government."

Wouldn't be the first time Sturgeon tampered with evidence. Remember what they did to Salmond?

MarieDeGournay · 12/08/2025 10:51

'The Adventures of Nicola Sturgeon and the Toxic T-shirts' 😃

FranticFrankie · 12/08/2025 10:51

Sturgeon is one woman who should wheesht- she talks shite

kim204 · 12/08/2025 10:51

To be fair to her, telling Sturgeon to fuck off is probably an act of literal violence in her delusional world.

Iwasphotoframed · 12/08/2025 10:54

Does any one think she will make as much money as JK out of her fiction writing?

Bonden · 12/08/2025 10:54

Thank god for JK.

RedToothBrush · 12/08/2025 10:54

kim204 · 12/08/2025 10:51

To be fair to her, telling Sturgeon to fuck off is probably an act of literal violence in her delusional world.

Be kind.

To everyone but women who don't want to go along with this shit show.