Does the general public want to watch programmes about Transwomen?

[TiredOldHen]

Media like The Guardian, Independent, BBC…etc really seem to push and promote any programmes with a very prominent transwoman/transwomen content. I just wondered how popular they actually are with viewers. For example there was lots of Trailers and ‘You must watch this’, ‘Essential viewing’… for What it Feels Like for a Girl. Do viewing figures reflect the same level of interest amongst viewers for programmes launched like this or Drag Race. I would genuinely like to know if they are satisfying a demand. Most programmes for young people now seem to have at least one trans person. It’s hard to tell in my bubble how interested people are outside the GC/TWAW debate.or if it’s just (in a Dr Who way) pushed upon them as something they should be aware interested in.

And again

And again

The ‘trans’ issue contributed heavily to the downfall of Nicola Sturgeon and according to polling in the US was number 1 factor in the election of Donald Trump among ‘undecided’ voters ie Democrats who couldn’t face voting Democrat again.

People care, why are you trying so hard to tell us we don’t? What’s in it for you?

Media has always done this: shove whatever self-righteous pet project is currently en vogue to the ignorant masses.
Now it's this morbid obssession with men who fetishize women's clothing, some of which have mutilated their bodies. It's grotesque, but hardly something new for the lunatics that abound in the media industry.
I guess people's nature is to be curious about other people's ways and lives, so it wouldn't surprise me that, provided the opportunity (euphemism for the media stuffing our faces with the "trans" bs), people will look at it.

This 🤗

It doesn't have to be in the top 10 or even top 20 for it to be worthy of prioritising sex being discussed. And please do tell how people would even articulate their area of concern to have it register?

Because as I said in my reply to you, the concern is spread over numerous areas that don't all fall into a nice neat category. So, if you are using the 'top 10' as a guide, then your contemptuousness continues to show your lack of depth in understanding the issues at hand.

However, when asked specific questions, the majority of answers show what the general public think.

Posting this summary from the YouGov tracker

In the following questions a transgender woman is someone who was biologically male at birth, but now identifies as a woman. A transgender man is someone who was biologically female at birth, but now identifies as a man.

Do you think transgender women should or should not be allowed to…
Take part in women's sporting events?2018 in italics, 2022 in [brackets vs 2024

Should be allowed 27 [16] 12% 2018 - 2024 this is decrease by 15%
Should not be allowed 48 [61] 74% 2018 - 2024 this is increase by 26%
Don't know 25 [22] 14%. 2018 - 2024 this is decrease by 11%

Use women's changing rooms? 2022 in brackets vs 2024
Should be allowed 42 [34] 25%. 2018 - 2024* this is decrease by 17%
Should not be allowed 33 [43] 58%. 2018 - 2024 this is increase by 25%
Don't know 25 [23] 17%. 2018 - 2024 *this is decrease by 8%

Use women's toilets? 2022 in brackets vs 2024
Should be allowed 46 [38] 33%. 2018 - 2024 this is decrease by 13%
Should not be allowed 30 [41] 51%. 2018 - 2024* *this is increase by 20%
Don't know 23 [21] 16%. 2018 - 2024 this is decrease by 7%

Use women's refuges? 2022 in brackets vs 2024
Should be allowed 47 [39] 29%. 2018 - 2024 this is decrease by 18%
Should not be allowed 27 [36] 55%. 2018 - 2024 this is increase by 28%
Don't know 26 [25] 16%. 2018 - 2024 this is decrease by 10%

No surgery question was asked in 2018

And the specific non surgical question from 2020:

Do you think a transgender woman who has not had gender reassignment surgery should or should not be allowed to...
Use women's changing rooms? 2020 in italics, 2022 in [brackets] vs 2024
Should be allowed 26 [25] 19%. 2020 - 2024 this is decrease by 7%
Should not be allowed 46 [48] 63%. 2020 - 2024* *this is increase by 17%
Don't know 28 [27] 18%. 2020 - 2024 this is decrease by 10%

Use women's toilets?
Should be allowed 31 [29] 23%. 2020 - 2024* *this is decrease by 8%
Should not be allowed 41 [46] 60%. 2020 - 2024 this is increase by 19%
Don't know 27 [25] 18%. 2020 - 2024 this is decrease by 9%

And finally:
This question was also not asked in 2018

Do you believe that allowing transgender women to use spaces reserved for women, such as women's toilets or changing rooms, does or does not present a genuine risk of harm to women? 2020 in italics, 2022 in [brackets] vs 2024

Does not present a genuine risk of harm 39 [32] 25%. 2020 - 2024 this is decrease by 14%
Does present a genuine risk of harm 32 [39] 55%. 2020 - 2024 this is increase by 23%
Don't know 29 [29] 20%. 2020 - 2024 this is decrease by 9%

d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/Transgender_data_2018.pdf

https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/Transgender_data_2020.pdf

https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/Internal_TransgenderIssues_220720_final_extraXbreak_FINAL.pdf

https://ygo-assets-websites-editorial-emea.yougov.net/documents/YouGov_-_Transgender_study_2024.pdf

There was also a Sex Matters poll done within days of the YouGov tracker. These are the results of it compared to in the past too. Just pulling them together, the Sex Matters (2533 adults polled) results were often more supportive than the YouGov results (2078 adults polled).

https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/SexMatters_Gender_241219_ZMwbM2T.pdf

In the following questions a transgender woman is someone who was biologically male at birth, but now identifies as a woman. A transgender man is someone who was biologically female at birth, but now identifies as a man.

Do you think transgender women should or should not be allowed to…

Take part in women's sporting events?2018 in italics, 2022 in [brackets vs 2024 SM (YG 2024)
Should be allowed 27 [16] 11%SM 2018 - 2024 SM this is decrease by 16% (YG 12%)
Should not be allowed 48 [61] 74%SM 2018 - 2024 SM this is increase by 26% (YG 74%)
Don't know 25 [22] 15%SM. 2018 - 2024 this is SM decrease by 10% (YG 14%)

Use women's changing rooms? 2022 in brackets vs 2024

Should be allowed 42 [34] 27%SM. 2018 - 2024SM this is decrease by 15% (YG 25%)*
Should not be allowed 33 [43] 56%SM. 2018 - 2024SM this is increase by 23% (YG 58%)
Don't know 25 [23] 17%SM. 2018 - 2024 SM this is decrease by 8% (YG 17%)*

Use women's toilets? 2022 in brackets vs 2024

Should be allowed 46 [38] 33%SM. 2018 - 2024 SMthis is decrease by 13% (YG 29%)
Should not be allowed 30 [41] 51%SM. 2018 - 2024SM this is increase by 20% (YG 55%)
Don't know 23 [21] 16%SM. 2018 - 2024 SM this is decrease by 7% (YG 16%)

Use women's refuges? 2022 in brackets vs 2024

Should be allowed 47 [39] 31%SM. 2018 - 2024 SM this is decrease by 16% (YG 29%)
Should not be allowed 27 [36] 47%SM. 2018 - 2024 SM this is increase by 20% (YG 52%)
Don't know 26 [25] 22%SM. 2018 - 2024 this is decrease SM by 4% (YG 20%)

And the specific non surgical question from 2020:

Do you think a transgender woman who has not had gender reassignment surgery should or should not be allowed to...

Use women's changing rooms? 2020 in italics, 2022 in [brackets] vs 2024SM (YG 2024)
Should be allowed 26 [25] 20%SM. 2020 - 2024SM this is decrease by 6% (YG 19%)
Should not be allowed 46 [48] 62%SM. 2020 - 2024 SM this is increase by 16% (YG 63%)
Don't know 28 [27] 18%SM. 2020 - 2024 SM this is decrease by 10% (YG 18%)

Use women's toilets?

Should be allowed 31 [29] 26%SM. 2020 - 2024 SM this is decrease by 5% (YG 23%)
Should not be allowed 41 [46] 58%SM. 2020 - 2024 SM this is increase by 17% (YG 60%)
Don't know 27 [25] 16%SM. 2020 - 2024 SM this is decrease by 11% (YG 18%)

I genuinely can't believe this needs to be explained over and over again. I can only assume now it must be a matter of reading/thinking/general comprehension...

Oh here we go again with the meaningless correlations.

The sorts of countries best for women very probably correlate positively for the wellbeing of pets, the sales of camping equipment and the consumption of takeaway coffee, because they are rich countries that can afford such luxuries. It doesn’t imply any direct causal link between the two.

It’s underlying prosperity that drives these things, in the case of women’s rights despite rather than because of their erosion in this particular.

(I have asked for my previous post to be removed as posted early by accident while editing)

These countries don’t know what a woman is so what evidence do you have that

a) actual women are responding to these surveys and

b) the surveys are not being treated in the same biased and underhand way that enabled the self id laws to be brought in that are quite clearly against the interests of all women?

Why are you so desperate to derail and stop us talking about an issue that concerns us? What’s in it for you?

I used to be involved in left-wing politics. And one of its characteristics was that women's issues were always a distraction from the class struggle. You could sort out women's rights after the revolution.

But here we are now, and male violence against women is endemic, two women a week are murdered by current or former male partners, there are nearly 100,000 rapes reported every year, and those represent only a small fraction of the ones that happen. The number of men accessing child abuse images is so high that they walk away from court with a rap on the knuckles because it's not logistically practical to put them all in jail. Trafficking in prostitution is rife, women's bodies are increasingly used as surrogates for wealthy couples, men think choking women is perfectly normal behaviour in sex - and so on. The war on women never ends.

And now our one defence against all this - our right to be recognised as a class of people with particular needs and protections - is being undermined by an ideology that says any man should have the right to enter that class. Once a society says that any man can be a woman, then the one consistent thing we have to protect us against male violence - namely our right to our own spaces free from men - is completely eroded. There is nowhere we can be safe.

The world is going to shit. I don't think drag race being on TV is a major issue. There are tv shows on every type of 'lifestyle'. The thing with TV you can choose not to watch - unlike real life.

By the way, I didn't see any polling questions that even bothered asking about where women's rights was on the list of issues for the UK 2024 election. Did you?

That is a sure fire way to be able to ignore and dismiss the issues at hand.

And handing out leaflets is not 'biased' at all. In fact, it brings out plenty of negative responses. Overall though, across even the most surprising demographics, the response was supportive to the general topic of prioritising sex over gender identity.

When males with all their privileges are counted as females and mixed together in statistical groups the "gender" gap ratio is going to be hopelessly corrupted so your chart is useless

It has all been popularised as being about 'women's rights' but that is not what it is esentially about. Not 'rights' in a civil rights kind of way, anyhow. The various protections and services that have been created for women on account of the vulnerabilities and particularities of their sex have been under-mined and targeted for erasure.

Beneath this lies an ideology rooted in a denial of biological reality, that stems, largely from post modernistic theories and concepts of the self - with a focus on individual rights and self expression and the ability to create your 'own truth' through the manipulation of language and the subversion of conventional categories.

There have always been people who have presented in ways that are non conforming with social and cultural expectations based on their sex, and since the early 1960s there have been men ( mainly men) who have sought -re-assignment surgery( for whatever reason or motive) so that they can present more convincingly ( in their own minds)

But never before have we been expected to believe that men can actually become women/female. The nature of the trans movement has been utterly totalitarian and brooks no dissent, and we have been led to believe that people are born that way; as in literally 'born in the wrong body'. That being a a woman, being female is all in the mind.

The language around women and being female has been targeted for erasure..to the extent that even medical literature cannot use straightforward sexed based terminology. Basically there has been an attempted erasure of the integrity and dignity of the female sex, as if it has no consequence and as if the supposed 'rights'/feelings/concerns/desires of those who adopt trans identities are the only right/feelings/ concerns/desires that matter.

There doesn't have to be any causality, it is a simple matter of showing that these countries are the best in the world for women whilst also having gender self ID policies in place.

They have stayed at the top of the tables for women since introducing gender self ID. If gender self ID is such a critical issue for women the burden is for gender critical feminists to explain why these countries have not dropped down the international tables for women's wellbeing and equality with men since introducing it.

I don't think people want to watch that stuff, no.

Anyway. Ignoring the posters that seem VERY keen to derail the thread and stop us discussing it.

I have noticed the BBC shoehorning ‘trans’ people into programs the most spurious ways. They have had men who would like to be women in Antiques Riadshiw with some old tat from their front room - not interesting or antique.

They featured a vulnerable looking young girl apparently on testosterone with a cheap teddy that was a few years old on the Repair Workshop. The item was neither interesting, rare or of value.

They are so invested from their previous ‘education’ of children on the 100 genders and still seem to be desperate to indoctrinate and lie rather than respect truth and law.

The BBC are so lost.

Do we have to go through each one of these countries again and point out the significant issues they have with domestic violence, high mother / infant mortality rates and other things that show how fucked up it is to try to leverage this 'gender gap' as being something relevant to single sex provisions.

And remember ... this 'gender gap' also heavily weighted female heads of state. So, of course the Nordics and Spain will score highly as they have queens. And are you seriously still arguing that Nicaragua and Namibia are safe places for female people?

give it up Suggestions. We have been through your World Economic Forum data over and over and over again pointing out the inherent flaws in the data. But you just keep posting it. And that is all you have, isn't it? This highly patchy data that doesn't quite say what WEF and you assert it does.

That you think Malta, Namibia and Nicaragua are the 'best in the world for women' says all anyone reading your posts needs to know really.

Malta, where women are farmed like animals to produce babies for purchase.

What @toastedteddy said
I’m proudly GC and feminist, I actually feel
reassurance from the Supreme Court ruling and outcome of the Brighton survivor’s network case.

i think the social contagion aspect of trans is on the wane.

i think it’s fine for the BBC to promote minority populations and relevant media - there has been a similar movement imo with autism and adhd, eg dating on the spectrum, and the inclusion of ND participants in reality TV.

i agree with other posters, MN is focusing on the smallest trans thing now, it feels hostile imo and unnecessary.

now I feel I have the law visibly behind me in retaining single sex spaces and services, I’m good. I don’t want to attack every evidence of a minority culture which includes vulnerable people (I completely agree it also includes predators).

You must be very selective in your choosing of these so called outstanding countries for female empowerment. What about Ireland, Malta, any South American country, Spain?And countries such as Germany are not immune from male violence towards women either, and additionally large German cities contain mega brothels in which women are exploited and trafficked into, and this is supposed to be 'liberating'. Frankly I've always found some elements of German culture to be louche and more than a little seedy.

Hello. My post wasn’t anything to do with anyone’s right or lack of them, nor was it a demand that drag race should be removed from our screens to protect my sensibilities . It was a simple question of did anyone know if there was a demand from the general public for trans women centric TV (I thought viewing figures would be evidence but I couldn’t find any). That’s it. No frothing anywhere, just curious. I am very good at being curious about lots of things at the same time so please don’t worry this will restrict my curiosity about other issues you feel should demand my curiosity more 😊

@suggestionsplease1 is still trying to flog those charts then?

"now I feel I have the law visibly behind me in retaining single sex spaces and services, I’m good."

That is ok. We others will continue to campaign and push to actually have those laws enacted in policies and guidances. Because, those laws being clarified, have not brought changes as yet. We have years of work ahead of us yet. I know it is exhausting, and thank you for your work to date, but at least you can perhaps not censure those who are still pushing through to get real change to happen.