Does the general public want to watch programmes about Transwomen?

[TiredOldHen]

Media like The Guardian, Independent, BBC…etc really seem to push and promote any programmes with a very prominent transwoman/transwomen content. I just wondered how popular they actually are with viewers. For example there was lots of Trailers and ‘You must watch this’, ‘Essential viewing’… for What it Feels Like for a Girl. Do viewing figures reflect the same level of interest amongst viewers for programmes launched like this or Drag Race. I would genuinely like to know if they are satisfying a demand. Most programmes for young people now seem to have at least one trans person. It’s hard to tell in my bubble how interested people are outside the GC/TWAW debate.or if it’s just (in a Dr Who way) pushed upon them as something they should be aware interested in.

Is it not? So what do you call men dressing up as members of an oppressed group? Or are you saying women are not oppressed by men?

The ‘trans’ issue contributed heavily to the downfall of Nicola Sturgeon

I agree that Sturgeon's handling of issues surrounding transgender identity very much affected her, and those issues are a hot potato in the US as well, but

according to polling in the US was number 1 factor in the election of Donald Trump among ‘undecided’ voters ie Democrats who couldn’t face voting Democrat again

this is misinformation, to the best of my knowledge; I have never seen reliable polls that indicate they were the most important factor among undecided voters in the 2024 US presidential election.

Implications of transgender identity-related issues for women should not be downplayed and women should not be silenced when speaking up.

Nevertheless, some have been misconstruing those issues as the most salient one in the 2024 election, and this misinformation has seemingly spread a lot in online spaces where women's rights are primarily discussed.

The analyses I've come across showed inflation and cost of living (i.e., economy) as the most significant factors in the undecided group; could you link to an example that shows otherwise?

Yes, it's possible that some in the undecided group, such as Independent voters who were concerned about the impact the transgender movement has had on female rights, could have swung to the other side, but there has not been reliable data that demonstrated even among such voters the transgender identity issues were the most dominant vote driver.

Again, this isn't meant to silence women and erroneously claim that concerns are "nothing but fabricated", etc., because female rights are indeed impacted and women should not be ignored; this is just about the particular argument regarding the importance of those issues in the 2024 election which has yet to be completely verified.

this is misinformation, to the best of my knowledge; I have never seen reliable polls that indicate they were the most important factor among undecided voters in the 2024 US presidential election.

This is not misinformation. There has been polling that showed it was the #1 issue for undecided voters. Why jump straight to an accusation of misinformation before you have even asked for more information?

I'm not sure if you've read my comment in its entirety, because I've actually asked for that.

"The analyses I've come across showed inflation and cost of living (i.e., economy) as the most significant factors in the undecided group; could you link to an example that shows otherwise?"

I totally agree. I abhor the term 'fishy' it's gross. There some bad eggs in drag like there are in all groups of performers and people.

The fact that a derogatory term for he perceived smell of women's private parts was used as a device for guessing generally understood and commonly used definitions in drag on a primetime programme on tv rather suggests it's not a 'few bad apples' but in fact an intrinsic part of the misogynistic basis of drag.

'Women's bodies are disgusting - let's all laugh at them!!' is a revolting sentiment, even if the makeup is ever so pretty.

It really is! What do you think drag is? It sends up/performs a gross caricature of womanhood.....often complete with the sorts of misogynistic stereotypes and crude tropes as any other. Often highly sexualised language and names of the sort which has been use to oppress women for ever.

No. We need more programming about trying to combat the scandal of overwhelming violence against women and girls. 51% of the population. Why is the 0.1% transwomen so important. Oh. 😑

The term "misinformation" is not being used in an accusatory manner here; it simply means inaccurate information, which is why I used it and not "disinformation" (inaccurate information intended to deliberately mislead or deceive).

It's good to be vigilant of information being spread without verification, as that's what some of those who believe women are being oversensitive about transgender identity movement have done to muddy the waters. We (as in people concerned about erosion of female rights) should not be doing what they are doing, even if some unverified or inaccurate information might seem entirely plausible.

Drag was not created to mock or deride like black face. It was created for effeminate gay men to express themselves in a way that wasn't allowed at the time, then grew in popularity because people enjoyed it. The intention matters.

I certainly don't believe that effeminate gay men are oppressing women or that they have more privilege than us.

The majority of drag audiences are gay men a d straight women. The women watching clearly don't feel mocked or derided by drag or they wouldn't be watching. I certainly don't feel "mocked by my oppressor" when watching drag. At no point ever would a black person watch the minstrels and not find it offensive so it's clearly not comparable.

It doesn’t bother me. I’m not transphobic, have trans friends and family so it is quite normal to me to see them represented in the media.

What are drag queens then?

In all honesty I’m not interested full stop. This is different to my interest in lgb issues. I watched Its a Sin with great interest and cried my eyes out. But I have also seen My Night With Reg, Milk and loads of other lgb series and films. I generally enjoy them and sympathise with the characters.
i eye rolled so hard when I saw that Paris lease thing. I also wasn’t interested in Butterfly on itv either. I’m gc so that one bothered me a lot. I think the BBC and delusional really.

Why do they always have offensive names that denigrate women then?

I have no objection to shows featuring transpeople (obviously) but it does get tedious when they’re featured that everyone has to bang on about how super special and beautiful they are in a way they never do for anyone else.

The only show I can think of that didn’t particularly fall into that trap was The OA. One of the kids was trans and it just wasn’t a major deal. One of my favourite shows in recent times.

But you led with ‘this is misinformation’. Before you asked for any verification. I will dig out the link but just because you haven’t seen it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

I’m willing to bet more than 25%would agree that someone with a dick is a man.

Re: misinformation, it appears that you missed my other comment and why I've qualified the term with "to the best of my knowledge" and added a request for a link to said reliable polls. You might have only focused on the term and skipped the rest of the comment, which is why I asked if you've read it in its entirety.

"The term "misinformation" is not being used in an accusatory manner here; it simply means inaccurate information, which is why I used it and not "disinformation" (inaccurate information intended to deliberately mislead or deceive).

It's good to be vigilant of information being spread without verification, as that's what some of those who believe women are being oversensitive about transgender identity movement have done to muddy the waters. We (as in people concerned about erosion of female rights) should not be doing what they are doing, even if some unverified or inaccurate information might seem entirely plausible."

I will dig out the link but just because you haven’t seen it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

I looked up the readily available polls and the analyses, and in the interest of being neutral consulted Republican data and conservative pollsters as well.

Republican strategists did claim their messaging on the transgender movement may have been effective among undecided voters, but even they did not claim the issue was the number one vote driver among undecideds.

There were Republican-supporting groups that commissioned polls, such as APP, which showed Trump's messaging might have influenced voters, but the polls did not specify whether the influenced voters were in the undecided group.

There was a group that claimed 6% of US voters thought the issue was the most important one, but the data was about voters in general, not undecided voters.

I can't seem to edit the last sentence; what I'm trying to get across is without even getting into how accurate the data is (especially the 6% one), even data from Trump-aligned groups has not demonstrated that the issue was the number one concern for undecided voters. That doesn't mean, again, that women should remain silent. It just means that particular argument about undecided voters has not been fully verified.

So gay men decided to dress as women for their own benefit and amusement. And you don’t think that’s wrong? Would you be ok with someone dressing as a native Indian to “express themselves” if they weren’t Indian? If not, why not? How do you know what every black person would think and feel?

Femininity is not a culture that can be appropriated like native Indians or black culture.

Feminine men exist. Native indianish white people don't exist.

But they’re not just feminine men. They’re men pretending to be women, often playing out misogynistic stereotypes as they do so.

All of the drag queens I ever have seen are gay effeminate men. They're not blokey blokes from down the pub just taking the piss out of their MIL by chucking a wig on.

Drag started as effeminate gay men expressing their feminine side when it was unacceptable for men to be feminine, a cover for them if you like. That is obviously not the case any more, though a lot of men really seem to be uncomfortable around effeminate gay men and especially drag queens so it's clearly still not openly accepted. I certainly don't think the effeminate gay men who appear in drag race are in positions of power in society and oppressing women.

Whether you all think it's acceptable or not, you simply cannot deny the artistry of it. Many modern make up techniques including contouring were invented by drag queens.

so you are saying that wearing dresses, makeup and fake boobs doesn’t make you a woman but a man dressing up as a woman? But they are not dressing as feminine men are they? They’re wearing woman face and caricaturising women. They are taking all the nasty sexist stereotypes thrown at women and utilising them for their own amusement.

Yes, they’re gay effeminate men ( although I know of a few that aren’t particularly). But they’re still acting out misogynistic stereotypes of women for the most part.

The power they have is that they’re men and men are the oppressor class, taking the piss out of women, who are the oppressed class.

I don’t deny some of them have talent, but they could use that talent in a way that doesn’t take women down, no?