NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #50

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence was 29 July 2025. It will resume again over 1 to 2 September for closing submissions.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February 2025. Sandie Peggie returned to give more evidence on 29 July 2025.

Access to view the second part of the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 42: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379820-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-42 25 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 43: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379979-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-43 25 July 2025 to 27 July 2025
Thread 44: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5380196-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-44 25 July 2025 to 28 July 2025
Thread 45: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5381518-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-45 28 July 2025 to 28 July 2025
Thread 46: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5381640-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-46 28 July 2025 to 29 July 2025
Thread 47: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5382102-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-47 29 July 2025 to 29 July 2025
Thread 48: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5382317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-48 29 July 2025 to 31 July 2025
Thread 49: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5383443-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-49 31 July 2025 to 8 August 2025

At an annual public meeting, maybe. But the regular board meetings will take place in a standard meeting room with an extra row of chairs for observers. And the agenda will necessarily be wide-ranging, and employees will be present to speak to their own papers on the whole range of business matters. They still have the full range of services to run.

It's more usual these days for board meetings to be live-streamed but, even where questions from staff & public are allowed, they have to be directly relevant to the agenda. And they will almost certainly exclude the public for a private part of the board meeting to discuss live matters like this.

I absolutely think NHSFife needs to be held accountable but they have to keep services running too. There would be no story at all, if Fife had only ensured the committee section of the website has set out the observer process from the outset. They are just as rubbish at routine admin as they are at dealing with crises.

I agree, @NebulousSupportPostcard, however I would expect every general Board meeting to have at least a short discussion on changes to the traffic lights risk assessment, and any changes and mitigations flagged which includes negative publicity.

Idk about NHS Fife but NHS Board papers tend to be extraordinary long and not exactly focused...

Looking more broadly, the Board's approach comes across as burying their head in the sand and being unaccountable Even replying to journalists with a short press release would be much better than this.

It will be interesting to see if any of the Independent Board members have been watching the case and raise any concerns or questions about wider issues found, i.e. organisation culture. They are supposed to be there to support and challenge.

"As far as I remember with both of those, they had to go abroad to have their surgeries done; it could not be done legally in the UK."

Sorry for going totally off-tangent here (and the very late reply). I can't speak as to the legality of anything, but I think it was more about where the doctors were that would perform such operations.

April Ashley (although then still George Jamieson) was working in France from (or even before) the age of 17 as a female impersonator at a night club in Paris.

Then, at the age of 20, he travelled to Casablanca in Morocco where a French doctor performed an operation to remove his genitals.

Following that operation, George, by now calling himself April Ashley, moved to London

Agree.
Its a really interesting read isn’t it and now it all seems quite obvious

Isn't this is the same board that found time to release a statement (and then correct it 4 or 5 times) during the tribunal?

I don't know if anyone else follows Naomi Cunningham on LinkedIn, but she's posted about having complaints about her misgendering correctly-sexing a trans-identifying man during a hearing NFA'd by the Bar Standards Board. Which is encouraging news.

She was reported to the Bar Standards Board?! Wasn't there a ruling that each party could use pronouns they preferred, and that there would likely be some asymetry?

In the tribunal yes, but that wouldn't prevent any member of the public from making a complaint to the BSB if they wanted.

Screenshots from LinkedIn for those not on it

Re mention of Jan Morris earlier on: here is an article by his daughter about what he was like as a parent. And the answer is: cruel, and I think in a very male way.

https://archive.ph/iKaQe

Thanks squeaky, sad the daughter calls him she …

So pleased to learn that RMW follows Naomi on LinkedIn Let’s hope Robin sees the update.

I hadn't looked at her followers, @CarefulN0w! I imagine the news will have pissed off a few people, which is quite amusing.

I'd thought that the BSB was captured (like the Law Society and Solicitors' Regulatory Authority), but maybe it's not.

She's so clear and concise, isn't she. I'm so glad she's doing all this.

Why would RMW want to follow Naomi?
Does they luffs her?

I read and follow people with whom I disagree or have very different perspectives.

I wonder who made the complaint to the BSB in the first place? Good to see common sense prevail there at least. Off to follow Naomi on LinkedIn, that will brighten up my feed no end.

Anyone is free to complain to the BSB. I'm glad they NFA'd without even involving her in any investigation.

If the BSB is getting lots of spurious complaints about GC barristers, I would imagine that they will rapidly grow very tired of them. I'd hope they already have, because I'm sure the complaints have been made.

Saw this on Twitter/X

Not quite the killer point she thinks it is.

The non-gotcha gotcha seems to be quite a feature, doesn't it?

That’s a bloke. The Notts Uni hockey player.

As soon as I saw that post, I thought that this would be a bloke. They just can't help themselves, can they?

That’s what happens when people NO DEBATE themselves into strawmanning they arguments they think are being made against them.

I think the most surprising thing about that Herald article is the fact that NHS Fife has a communications team. What on earth have they been doing throughout this debacle!!!