NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #49

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence was 29 July 2025. It will resume again over 1 to 2 September for closing submissions.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February 2025. Sandie Peggie returned to give more evidence on 29 July 2025.

Access to view the second part of the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 42: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379820-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-42 25 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 43: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379979-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-43 25 July 2025 to 27 July 2025
Thread 44: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5380196-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-44 25 July 2025 to 28 July 2025
Thread 45: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5381518-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-45 28 July 2025 to 28 July 2025
Thread 46: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5381640-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-46 28 July 2025 to 29 July 2025
Thread 47: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5382102-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-47 29 July 2025 to 29 July 2025
Thread 48: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5382317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-48 29 July 2025 to 31 July 2025

Yes without the amazing backer it is unlikely this case could ever have been brought. For that I am immensely grateful. I'm sure NHS Fife never in a million years thought Sandie would take this action. For most ordinary people it's just not on our radar and the costs involved are too extreme to consider. The coming together of the tenacious nurse Sandie, sex matters, Neil Hanvey, a shit hot Naomi Cunningham and the entire legal team, topped off with a very generous backer is dynamite. The TRAs can only weep.

That's it exactly without the generosity, and kindness of her backer this would be brushed under the carpet.

Sandies bill must be higher than Fifes. Theirs is estimated to be £700k.
Thats 2 or 3 times the average house.

It's wild when you think of the legal costs in concrete terms like that. I remember early on in the Feb hearing someone saying the costs would pay for a changing room to be fitted for Upton. Now it's grown to 3 houses. They need to stop messing around before it becomes more economical to build Fife its own tribunal court (with in-house catering to avoid future irnbru & ham sandwich debacles).

I've never felt sorry for an AI before.

Thats why her backer is so so important.

Fife have public funding, Sandie doesn't there is just no way on this earth she could even have considered taking out loans for £700k+

Could you imagine the Bank Manager, "Mrs Peggie, you want a loan for how much?" 🤔

This 2014 New Statesman article is fascinating and depressing - it feels to me like that was at the start of the wave of utter lunacy that we are only now, 11 years on, starting to see receding. It was posted on X by the brilliant Glosswitch as she's just published a Critic article with pretty much the same title, but about the appointment of Mary Ann Stephenson.

https://archive.is/qBS6h

Unfortunately you can’t adduce new evidence at an appeal.

She did better with a hypothetical Pete TBH. Fife's witnesses might have resorted to untruths if shown a picture of Upton.

I am trying to imagine JR’s objection if NC introduced this as a picture of “hypothetical” Pete. It would have been a joy to behold.

Even more depressing but not unexpected to see at the foot of the article regarding the author.

Terry Macdonald is a pseudonym.

Dr. Upton did have balding hair at the time of the CR incident I understand and looks like he's maybe taken hormones. But still looks very male so I don't think any photos were necessary to make the point.

That would be amazing.

Thanks. This happened in the Darlington Nurses case. I would find it hilarious if someone tried that on me - I'd be sitting there asking some very polite and pointed questions. Best way to deal with that sort of bullshit imho. Go along with it.

The ginger beard in the 'Before' photos just serves to emphasise the point.

There are many 'tells' but I think the most obvious is movement. The hips don't lie.

I knew Upton was male just from the way he moved, even the few steps to the witness box with his back to the camera.

I wonder if the judge and panel ever saw him walking across the tribunal room. From what I can remember the witnesses were generally seated before they came in and didn't leave until after the bench had risen.

I'm not sure anyone with normal vision would have identified "Beth" as a transwomen when in scrubs and hair tied back.

I've tried making the point on TRA forum ahem that most transitioning don't immediately use the opposite sex facilities.

It's part of the ludicrousness with their ideology that the moment Pete says "I'm a female plumber" he's allowed in.

Note I'm not justifying trans using opposite sex facilities. I don't agree with that.

DBU still looked bald in the more recent photos - long hair artfully combed forward, but the forehead line was somewhere on the top of the head.

I saw someone from the other side of a field yesterday, and immediately knew it was a man from the way he moved. It wasn't clothing or body shape - this was at a stables, where we all wear pretty much the same and many of us are shapeless .

Similar experiences here. I can tell male from female when it's someone in full beekeeping suit, with their back to me. Same with bikers. It's just obvious.

I agree about bikers (been there) though I have no experience of beekeeping. I am a tall woman, and when I habitually wore androgynous fireproof clothing and a safety helmet and visor to set off fireworks, the only people who ever thought I was male were men. Women would generally tell me how great it was to see a woman doing that job, because they could tell instantly that I was female: even in the dark (fireworks tend to be!) and having drink taken they could still tell.

Two relevant things from today’s work.

The first from Roy Lilley on Twitter talking about patient safety couldn’t be more relevant.
The themes never change:
>Poor leadership,
>ignored whistleblowers,
>defensive cultures,
>fear of speaking up,
>staff bullied into silence,
>workforce shortages,
>patients harmed while the DH fiddled with targets.
https://x.com/roylilley/status/1952614944576352529?s=46&t=OD0tMok8rbGQj0XbFHZNfA

The second is the 2025 RCN employment survey.
https://surveys.rcn.org.uk/s/es2025
It is for nurses but you don’t have to be an RCN member to complete it. The majority of questions are standard employment survey stuff but there is a box at the end for comments, so I took the opportunity to point out that female only changing rooms matter to me in an employment context, as does the right to express my woriads views without reprisal. And that I expect my union to support me.

It was telling that JR seemed personally offended that SP's backer was able to match, and perhaps exceed, Fife's funds - this despite Fife freely spending taxpayer's money with the hospital's actual liability limited to 25k

I know, There certainly hasn't been any penny pinching they have spent a serious amount of money on this case.

I hope they know how grateful we all are because they aren't just doing this for Sandie. Its for all women and girls.

She doesn’t approve. Which is weird as these cases are keeping her in gold saddle clips or whatever.

It’s interesting how this case really highlights the class issues in gender extremist ideology.

This was discussed more broadly and then briefly in relation to Sandi’s Peggie’s case in the podcast This Isn’t Working. Interesting listening.