NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #49

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence was 29 July 2025. It will resume again over 1 to 2 September for closing submissions.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February 2025. Sandie Peggie returned to give more evidence on 29 July 2025.

Access to view the second part of the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 42: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379820-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-42 25 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 43: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379979-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-43 25 July 2025 to 27 July 2025
Thread 44: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5380196-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-44 25 July 2025 to 28 July 2025
Thread 45: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5381518-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-45 28 July 2025 to 28 July 2025
Thread 46: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5381640-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-46 28 July 2025 to 29 July 2025
Thread 47: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5382102-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-47 29 July 2025 to 29 July 2025
Thread 48: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5382317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-48 29 July 2025 to 31 July 2025

"Nothing about us without us" is one of the second-tier slogans. And as we've seen in excruciating detail from DU, EVERYTHING is about him.

It's why it's so important that we keep pushing back. I'm not anti-trans. You do you. I'm pro-women.

So here I stand a woman but that’s purely allegorical,
I do not have the chromosomes that are truly female at all,
so I will grow my hair and wear a scarf around my face to hide,
please don’t point out that I’m a man or I may commit femicide

There is no reason in the land to deny my femininity
I have the nails, the clothes, the shoes, the sheer perspicacity
To understand what ‘woman’ is in a way no one has done before,
Dont deny me all the things I want or I’ll drag your rights straight out the door.

I should think a number of them are on authorised or sick leave.

Agree. My guess is they're not likely to all work together at close quarter in the future, but for those who do stay, I wouldn't fancy being in charge of the rotas!

I wonder who was involved in SP's disciplinary. I wonder if they were trying to protect their own jobs ?

Perhaps it's finally dawning on them that they will be next up in court and on the front page of every Scottish newspaper and they decided that backing men's rights to watching women undress in an NHS workplace changing room isn't such a worthy cause after all.

Contuining the My Fair Lady/Get me to the Church theme:

My notes are all contemporaneous
Walking out on me must be a crime
Add some new data
Change the dates later
But get me to the court (get me to the court!) get me to the court on time.

This photo is doing the rounds on X (give the photo a min to upload):

Nitter link for those who don't/don't want to use X):

nitter.net/quineofthenorth/status/1952318909664596189#m

A very telling comment in that article

For whose dignity and respect can and will be deemed negotiable in these spaces.

At Fife it was the women's dignity that was negotiable - but that doesn't seem to matter.

I wouldn't fancy being in charge of the rotas!

Maybe they could train an AI to do this?

Ms Given's article is one of the worst that I've read in a while; and there have been no shortage of those. The comments aren't much better. Such blatant bias.
Bull's poo poo

Agreed, they were more scared of Beth than Peggie. He had ALL the flag waving support. And more likely to get legal involved.

I note Mr Swinney has been very quiet about his support for Fife after the second part of the ET started.

Well Dr Kate Searle leads the junior doctor fellowship recruitment and induction, so hopefully she is being looked squarely in the eye by a new August intake of doctors who are judging whether or not they are safe to use the changing rooms this year.

Is that actually Upton or Pete the Plumber ?

I’ve been thinking about this and have come up with some more.

I have two legs and can’t fly. I am an ostrich.

I am small and like cheese and chocolate. I am a mouse.

I like swimming and eating fish. I am a mermaid?

I once painted a ceiling and I love Italian food. I am Michelangelo.

NoBinturongsHereMate · Yesterday 22:01

A man sobs down the ward
He says, "Why am I soft in the middle now?
Why am I soft in the middle?
It must mean I'm really a girl

Excellent doggerel!

I'm always cold, I need external heat I am a reptile 🐍

Doggerel? Perish the thought! 😂 It's an impressive take on Paul Simon.

Well indeed.

But just to be clear, it is Upton.

I assume that it would have been just too provocative for NC to show a photo of Theodore Upton to witnesses as an alternative to Pete the Plumber when asking if this obviously male individual should be permitted to enter the female changing room.

She might be leaving that for the Court of Appeal!
Pete the Plumber did a good job of bringing to mind a 'proper man' everyone has a Plumber in their phone, that does the odd jobs that need done.

The thought that this issue should be decided on 'how well you do woman-face' baffles me.

Will we end up with some sort of Britian's Got Talent style panel with a golden booby to press to get you straight through to the finals?

And thank goodness it was Neale Hanvey who is her MSP and not one of the Green fruitloops and he was able to ensure Sandie got the correct support.

Yes, and getting sex matters support.
And then her amazing backer. It's must have been such a relief to get her backer.
Beyond her wildest dreams that a fairy godmother would appear and provide funding. What amazing person to do that

I am immensely grateful to Sandie Peggie, her MP, sex matters and her backer!

I am so glad and relieved that this topic is finally getting a sane airing.

Whatever happens, I think this ET has reached far more people than could ever have been initially anticipated.

It has also raised concerns in enough of the general public about behaviours of NHS management and treatment of ordinary staff for what most people seem to consider ordinary views’ to start to make a difference.