NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #47

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence had been intended to be 28 July with 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing was to have ended on 30 July. However, it became apparent as the hearing progressed that this schedule wouldn't be followed. (Considerable understatement.)

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 42: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5379820-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-42 25 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 43: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5379979-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-43 25 July 2025 to 27 July 2025
Thread 44: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5380196-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-44 25 July 2025 to 28 July 2025
Thread 45: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5381518-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-45 28 July 2025 to 28 July 2025
Thread 46: mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5381640-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-46 28 July 2025 to 29 July 2025

Continuation thread:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5382317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-48

It’s not just tribunals, a friend suggested to me I should stand to be a councillor in our local town because of an interest I have, but I wouldn’t dare because I don’t want people trawling through my social media or making things up about me, how many good politicians have been put off standing because they don’t want their lives dragged through the mud or every word twisted in a way that couldn’t have happened 20 years ago before social media?

About SP’s views inevitably impacting her care, as some have claimed here:

If I’m 100% honest, I probably am “transphobic” now. The actions of TRAs and people like Barker, Bryson, Upton et alia mean that my heart sinks when I see a TW, and I choose not to watch TV programmes that feature TW actors.

In the course of my job, if I have to deal with a TW on an individual basis, I give them the same level of service as anyone else. In fact if anything, I probably go out of my way to ensure they receive exemplary service. This is for two reasons: 1) I don’t want to give anyone cause for complaint, especially when the behaviour of so many TW shows they absolutely would complain and 2) I am aware of my own bias so I overcompensate to make sure it doesn’t show.

I am entitled to have these thoughts about TW. I am also sufficiently professional to draw a boundary between my personal beliefs and my behaviour at work. It seems SP, with her 30 years of exemplary service, is similarly capable. Is she racist? It seems so. Would I like her as a friend? Probably not. Am I transphobic? By the standards of the Left (of which I once considered myself a part until they lost their mind over something as fundamental as biological sex), yes I am. Am I a bad employee because of this? The four reward and recognition awards I’ve received in the past two years say not.

100% agree.

DU likely will continue to be well-supported by the NHS. The tribunal can’t compel the NHS removes DU from women’s CR, but just say the NHS lose this case as a result. They likely will be liable for more claims if DU continues to use the CR. So logically they may review the decision after the outcome of the tribunal to limit their liability for future claims. It’s also possible they appeal the decision.

What's the likely route for her to be in trouble with the BSB? My only awareness is that is gc barristers saying they've been maliciously reported, I think. I assume - surely? - it's not something for the non-legally trained among us to have any role in. Is it likely NC would report her, or Judge Kemp?

Just want to say that regardless of my last few posts which were very much in the "thinking out loud" vein about the abhorrent nature of racism, and the possible effects of it in a medical setting, I was not making a value judgement on Sandi Peggie or on whether she was racist or not.

I think the memes she shared are terrible, and wouldn't agree with her on a number of topics, but I still stand with her that her rights to ss CR etc don't and shouldn't hinge on her personal opinions or character.

I also think that with her long, unblemished career and from reports that she was a really good, caring nurse, that she is clearly very good at her job, and it doesn't sound like any of her personal opinions have caused her to give anything less than excellent care.

Thank you @Veryweirdsadtimes for sharing your thoughts, I'm really sorry about your dad

ETA: missed a word, bold and underlined.

No it was Sandra someone.

ETA it was LN who told us (and the rest of the UK) that Gina likes a drink.

I wonder if they'll be off to Benidorm together this year? 🤔

Did I read that right? You lurk on around 400 trans groups? @TheLivelyZebra I'm impressed with your stamina and stomach for it! I agree with your analysis and recognise the traits.

I think the memes she shared are terrible, and wouldn't agree with her on a number of topics, but I still stand with her that her rights to ss CR etc don't and shouldn't hinge on her personal opinions or character.

And the same is of course true of the various other women who've behaved badly in some way in connection with these proceedings. The perjurers, other racist joke lovers, bullies and nasty pieces of work. This has no effect on their sex based rights in the workplace.

Can someone tell me what the relevance of Gina-who-likes-a-drink was? I've not been able to follow that much today. Thanks!

Gina and Lindsey from the Benedorm WhatsApp. Lindsey mentioned something in passing about Gina had probably had too much to drink by then. So in classic mumsnet style it’s all

’Gina who likes a drink’

NC asked LN was drunk at that point. LN's answer was

Gina likes a drink

It's a direct quote from TT. I'll try and find the link.

Thanks both!

Here are the quotes:

LN I have no idea. I would hope so but is 7 yrs worth
NC There's evidence in this chat isnt there, that [no sound but NC may be looking for page] Turn please to p1709. This is a 1:1 chat betwn u and Gina
Yes
NC Gina says Sandra is pissing me off. She's been texting for a pic
of the weirdo but sent a pic of me back. Gina is annoyed w Sandie.
Yes
NC She'd asked the wrong person. But her husband was having a difficult time due to personal issues
LN I dont know abou tthe [muted] birthday
NC Gina had a had a few drinks at this point

LM - Gina likes to have a drink. Didn't know she was drunk.

(My mistake, it was Gina likes to have a drink. No "classic Mumsnet style", just a direct quote.)

They're on this page:

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5381518-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-45?page=20

What is the point of the law if organisations and individuals can just ignore it and get away with it.

You'd think at the very least Judges/ lawyers would realise this shitshow is a threat to their very existence.

Absolutely this. I was born late 60s and this was totally normal usage when I was growing up. Interchangeable use of corner shop and p*ki shop. My Bangladeshi, Indian and Pakistani classmates also used the term. Lived in a relatively multicultural dock town

Reminded me of a rape trial. Brutal.

I was just thinking about the sick jokes. They have always been around but before the internet they were shared verbally so untraceable and not so easy for many eyes to see them. I can still recall the sick jokes about Lesley Whittle, the poor woman who was kidnapped in the 1970s

Possibly more classism at play then. In the naice rich communities (without any Pakistani people, no doubt) this wasn't a term that was used. SP did say the first shop she'd worked in the term was in the name of the shop.

Notably wealth / class is not a PC in the EA2010 - which makes sense as the EA2010 seems mainly a tool for rich people to punch down on poor people.

You can't go to court if you don't have extreme amounts of cash (as has been evidenced by the crowdfunders). JKR has commented on the classism at play here too.

J.K. Rowling on X:

Aha, a COVEN!

So true, no wonder other women at Fife wouldn't come forward.

And at the end of the day, it feels like they have just tried to dirty her name to discourage others coming forward.

classic mumsnet comment wasn’t a criticism

Gina username on the thread too.. another classic mumsnet style bit of fun

Anyone can report a barrister if they have concerns. There is an online form at Online reporting form for questions and concerns.

Continuation thread:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5382317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-48