NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #46

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence had been intended to be 28 July with 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing was to have ended on 30 July. However, it became apparent as the hearing progressed that this schedule wouldn't be followed. (Considerable understatement.)

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 42: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379820-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-42 25 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 43: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379979-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-43 25 July 2025 to 27 July 2025
Thread 44: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5380196-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-44 25 July 2025 to 28 July 2025
Thread 45: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5381518-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-45 28 July 2025 to 28 July 2025

Oh no, I didn't realise this! 😳
Is nothing sacred?!

And also that sex is not "complicated", as IB and various others tried to convince themselves the panel and judge last week.

I actually wish she hadn't worded it that way, because if a woman has a hysterectomy and the cervix is removed, the vagina becomes a dead end and the sperm literally hits a ceiling and has nowhere to go. Their vagina is still a vagina, though, and what is created in a man is not.

However, one thing NC did say that I appreciated is that it would be deeply offensive to say to someone who has had this surgery that they've changed sex, and MC agreed.

My eyes! My eyes!

I used to love Tizer in my misspent sweetie-ridden yoof. What happened to it?

And don't even get me started on the Irn Bru chewy bars. I will literally start salivating at the mere thought.

I don't care if it IS unjust but I totally blame Marty Pellow's ex for their withdrawal from circulation. She tried to sue the makers of Irn Bru chewy bars back in the 90s for giving her rotten teeth. If anyone deserved to be brought to justice apart from NHS Fife it's HER.

CONFIRMATION: Salivary glands activated. My dreams will be sweet tonight.

Panel back

Also no breasts yet.

So perhaps those of us who have a vagina that is not 'neo' can call it a 1901 vagina?

Sound is buggered

So you can put on some lippy, stockings and a mini skirt and take as much HRT as you can get from the NHS but you can change those pesky male chromosomes!

Most delicious weird food combination I've ever had was in Scotland. Haggis Bon Bons. Haggis mixed with black pudding and deep fried. Sounds disgusting, tasted delicious!😂

I saw an ad for sugar free Lucozade.
What is Lucozade if not sugary coloured water?
Anti-matter Lucozade or something??

Thank heavens the trib didn't start up because I got totally distracted reding
Waulking the Tweed: Scotland’s cultural heritage | Blog by Skye Weavers
after hearing a waulking song on Radio 3.
I can sing a bit of one of them, 'Dheininn sugradh ris an inghean dubh..' [that's Irishified Scots Gaelic, sorry I can't spell it properly..
It was such a miracle that the tradition and the songs survived long enough to be saved

End of distraction! but they're still not back at the trib, they're probably turning the video thingy on and off, Hey, they should get James Borthwick back, remember him? he'd sort it out for them no prob!

Sound is on now judge is talking to a video screen we can't see

100%

And in my personal life Im not in many WhatsApp or Facebook groups because I go by the rule “never write anything down that you wouldn’t be happy to announce to a crowded room”. So that rules out quite a lot…

We make burgers with pork mince, haggis and black pudding. They are epic.

So MC and Upton have had a conversation about his genitals? I wonder when this occurred. Over coffee in the hospital canteen?

NC questioning Emma Moore at Sex Matters

A Willy with male chromosomes so in all likelihood, and subject to NHS Fife testing, a man

😂

Classic Vag? Like an old car?

I'm missing bez right now

…and therefore he’s a man, innit? ;-)

Just thinking that if - and I'm not saying she is - IF SP was shown to be racist that could work in her favour here.

If she had a hatred of people from other races, or gay women (I know she doesn't) - had she asked to not be in a changing room with them? Was this 'hatred' enough for her to ask for separate changing areas?

Because if not, then it's not 'hatred' or bigotry that's driving the request to be in a separate changing room. It's something she has only done on the basis of physical sex - not race, not sexuality or anything else.

She was happy to share a changing room with anyone from any background despite how she allegedly might have felt about them, but not someone of the opposite sex.

Unless they're arguing she has an irrational hatred of all male people then this backs up the essence of her case.

[Noises from CVP on court wall]
J Good morning [sound breaking up] Can you see and hear us Miss Moore?
EM Yes [EM takes outh]
J I write answers slowly so plse speak slowly. [sound breaking up]
NC Yr full name
EM Emma Moore. I'm the administartor for SM

It's looking like sex matters doesn't have the bundle