NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #46

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence had been intended to be 28 July with 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing was to have ended on 30 July. However, it became apparent as the hearing progressed that this schedule wouldn't be followed. (Considerable understatement.)

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 42: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379820-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-42 25 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 43: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379979-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-43 25 July 2025 to 27 July 2025
Thread 44: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5380196-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-44 25 July 2025 to 28 July 2025
Thread 45: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5381518-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-45 28 July 2025 to 28 July 2025

Good point

This may seem dense but I didn't know the judge was also writing it down? I thought they had people that did that separately.

I saw haggis ice cream on the menu at The Saint Bar in St Andrews a few years ago. Don't think it can have proved too popular as I just checked the online menu and don't see it listed now. They do the best peppercorn steak I've ever tasted though.

And to keep it relevant to the thread - St Andrews is just across the water from Dundee, where the tribunal is being held. 😇

Don’t forget, her dick apparently…from a doctor fgs.

We go from specious to duplicitous and arrive at what Tennessee Williams would say is mendacious. Very sad times indeed.

J Good morning [sound breaking up] Can you see and hear us Miss Moore? EM Yes [EM takes outh]
J I write answers slowly so plse speak slowly. [sound breaking up]
NC Yr full name
EM Emma Moore. I'm the administartor for SM
EM I answer phone, deal w emails and ?
NC What phone do u have
EM A specific mobile just for SM
NC Where is the number
EM Afaik just on Charity Commission website
NC [new doc] What do these pages show?
EM I dont think I have it. Just joining instructions for this call

They've got the pdfs now

They do but the judge likes to take his own notes aswell.

I did not say that working class, black or ethnic minority women did not contribute, I said they are excluded from the history books.

Actually that is not what you said. It might have been what you meant but it isn;t what you said. You said: 'Can we possibly remind ourselves that Feminism was started by WHITE MIDDLE CLASS WOMEN. They ignored the working class servants, the black and ethnic minorities.'

As far as I am aware the suffragette movement started in Manchester by Middle Class White Women.

The suffragette movement is not interchangeable with feminism. It is one small manifestation of a global movement.

NC We're dealing with that now [pause]
EM Just have received it now NC p 17, 31, 32 What is it
EM 1st image is scsh from phone after received the call. 2nd is notes I took during call - scribbled them down

[I've had email exchanges with Emma, about our donations to SM - so I feel I kinda know her]

They do, but it’s also well-known that writing notes longhand enables better memory of events. If I wrote something down I rarely have to refer to the written notes, though obviously it’s handy to have them to refresh my memory.

As punishment for being a non believer, perhaps it was more a case that they really really wanted to refer her but just couldn’t find manufacture the evidence.

This thread is moving fast and as a precaution I thought that, again, I'd start a continuation thread and post it here well in advance of this thread being filled:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5382102-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-47

You forgot the bra he was wearing in the CR.

Oh good lordie. Vetted post? Does that mean Fife actually opened post addressed to Sandie and DU?

You have been MISSED.

I didn’t “give people a pass” I said it’s common. And yes naive comments have been made on this thread, if you’re not naive I wasn’t referring to you 🙄

@Appalonia
Check your DMs please.

NC What was said?
EM I half expected a scam as unknown no. Just said hello. A lady asked is it SM? I said yes, good am. She went on to tell me that worked for R1 and wanted to tell me what had ans was happening at R1. Was 8.30am on Fri. She had a Scot accent and wanted to be anon. She had been instructed to put aside all the post for Sp and Du so it cld be vetted (works in Post Room). E'one stongly discouraged to talk about the case.
NC Plse pause for the J
NC Talking about instructions given
EM They were told this as a high vol of post

I'm not from the UK originally (a migrant no less) and for years I thought that Irn Bru was oddly coloured beer.

They do now for this case, but they didn't when the hearing started. Also, the judge won't write everything down, but will be including things that won't go in the transcript, e.g. thoughts on the way the witness is behaving.

oh the postcards were a great move for transparency. I am so glad it is being vetted mine were written so cheerily with that in mind!

As the vast majority of boys in a school biology class would say. The others would just be shocked at others using words such as penis/willy/cock in class.

If I used the term lady dick or gock the boys would report me for taking unapproved substances and never believe anything I said again in a lesson.

I agree, I was meaning that I would not write my colleague who is also a close friend how was your weekend in a work email. I would in a Whataspp or other social media message. I never write anything I do not actually mean or would be ashamed to say.

I think that characterisation of UK feminism is a sweeping generalisation and dismissive of working class women's activism and achievements, and those of women from other minoritised groups, over the years. I think I understand the point you are trying to make in relation to Sandie's case, but it's an oversimplification - more the sort of thing you hear from social justice warriors who get their lines to take from the US.

So just DU and SP's post put aside? I wonder how much of hers Sandie actually got.