NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #46

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence had been intended to be 28 July with 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing was to have ended on 30 July. However, it became apparent as the hearing progressed that this schedule wouldn't be followed. (Considerable understatement.)

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 42: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379820-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-42 25 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 43: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379979-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-43 25 July 2025 to 27 July 2025
Thread 44: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5380196-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-44 25 July 2025 to 28 July 2025
Thread 45: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5381518-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-45 28 July 2025 to 28 July 2025

Even after saying it last week, MC still saying XYY is Kleinfelter’s Syndrome. You’d have thought she’d have googled it, instead of repeating it.

TT not updating, so if anybody is following on X or something...

Panel are back.

X isn't updating either. Technical issues?

Confidently incorrect

Panel doing follow up questions of MC

MC ‘I typed a whole email saying SP had been referred to the NMC, but I don’t know why I did that because at no time was she referred’

WTAF? These people are unbelievable!

They have just started tweeting again

TT back

NC Thank you. No further Qs
J We'll take a 5 min break here.
P Want to clarify. JR asked u abt Datix. U said u thought u knew who the indivs were. How did u come to that conclusion
MC Datix usually says who it is. The info re who it is is hidden from some
P Can u explain the self roster
MC They choose the shifts. They need to work a certain no of different shifts. They cant change it once written. they'd need to go to the consultant writer once its set
P U mentioned yr dep clinical lead?
MC Dr Melvin Carew [missed]
P U were asked by JR about R1

Trans Reddit have a thread about following the tribunal live (first time I've seen them do that) if anyone is interested in seeing their take on it. Not happy about the hearsay evidence which is desperately unfair against trans people.

I need to try this. lol

Agree, but I'll be doing it with full fat versions of both.

I'll be swinging from the light fittings shortly after.

Witness finished

That's end of Respondent case

Can someone who is watching say what did NC ask just before the break - TIA

Short break whilst they set up the CVP witness

About ten minutes break ish.

Sex Matters via video link up next

The joys of having a post mix at work. It was full-fat Irn Bru and standard Diet Coke.

Mezzo Mix in Germany, half coke, half orangeade, you can buy it in bottles and cans, also known as Spezi (which is also the Bavarian word for friend/mate).

Wants to have Sandie as final witness of the day

saying case by case use of CR by GI
MC I have v little experience. Am aware of convos re other T identified indivs in other depts but not been directly involved
J No other Qs. Any cross?
JR No
J You are released. Thank you for yr time
NC I'd prefer to have SP as the last witness
J So you'd like the CVP witness next?
NC Yes J Then we'd better have a 10 min break whilst we sort the CVP

I believe the witness via video link is someone from Sex Matters who took a call from another hosp staff member re male using female CR but afraid to speak up at the time.

I love irn bru but I find I have to be in the mood for it…

@Redshoeblueshoe
This was the last question
NC KS agreed bio sex had a clear meaning of whether M or F. Your talk of mosaicism etc was a cynical attempt to blind tribunal w science?
No
NC Or worse to align tribunal with a sophisticated view of rejecting simple realities understood by lesser ppl like SP
No

That is laziness on an outrageous scale!

Dr Currer says non-standard chromosomes or cases of ambiguous genitalia are between one in 1,000 and one in 3,000 people.
Ms Peggie’s lawyer Naomi Cunningham said there is “no evidence to suggest Dr Upton has any of these conditions”. Dr Currer said: “No, not as far as I’m aware.”
Ms Cunningham said: “So Dr Upton is simply biologically male, isn’t he, in the sense we are using?”
Dr Currer said: “She’s chromosomally male as far as I am aware. Although I have not examined Dr Upton she is also, in terms of secondary sexual characteristics in terms of genitalia, male.”
Ms Cunningham says that when Dr Currer gave evidence on Friday and detailed all the different chromosomal anomalies and disorders, it was a “cynical attempt to blind the tribunal with science”. Dr Currer said she did not agree with this.
Ms Cunningham then said: “Worse perhaps, it was an attempt to flatter the tribunal to aligning itself with the sophisticated nuanced view of a hospital administrator with a university degree into rejecting the views of those like Sandie Peggie.”
Dr Currer also disagrees with this statement.
That ends Ms Cunningham’s cross-examination of Dr Currer and the tribunal is taking a five minute break.

Depending how far back:
she said she wanted SP as last witness.
Previously, she suggested to MC that all the talk about DSDs was trying to blind the trib. with science. Answer was no.

Reposting Scotsman live blog link.
https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/nhs-fife-employment-tribunal-live-sandie-peggie-to-be-questioned-again-on-dr-beth-upton-trans-row-5246165