NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #46

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence had been intended to be 28 July with 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing was to have ended on 30 July. However, it became apparent as the hearing progressed that this schedule wouldn't be followed. (Considerable understatement.)

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 42: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379820-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-42 25 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 43: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379979-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-43 25 July 2025 to 27 July 2025
Thread 44: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5380196-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-44 25 July 2025 to 28 July 2025
Thread 45: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5381518-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-45 28 July 2025 to 28 July 2025

NC So a neovagina dsnt change a persons sex
MC Not re sexual function defn, no
NC U discussed mosaicism, being v rare and BM transplant. Do u agree is still male after a transplant?
Yes
NC Wont make his penis shrink etc
MC It wld nt change his sex characs
NC He remains M

NC really going to town on this, isn't she??

I understand now why NC wanted so much time with this witness. She must have realised she’s the only one who won’t pretend on the stand that she doesn’t understand the workings of the body.

Yes, pseudo-vagina would be much more accurate imo

Sorry, that was a reply to a PP !!!

Is NC going over her time slot yet?

Or simply a fake vagina

Can we possibly remind ourselves that Feminism was started by WHITE MIDDLE CLASS WOMEN. They ignored the working class servants, the black and ethnic minorities.

Can we stop this nonsense? It is DEEPLY offensive to all the black, minoritised and working class feminists both in the UK and around the world. This is a patriarchal lie designed to discredit the movement. It is true that the closer one is to the axes of power, the more likely it is that ones efforts are acknowledged and recorded but that is a demonstration of privilege not the truth.

I use the heart as sympathy and also "I enjoyed what you wrote and I think we'd get on IRL"

This is exactly why some people are motivated to be dishonest about what gender-critical (or sex, or gender, or male, female, woman, man) means. Because when it's set out as 'sex is real, cannot change, and sometimes this matters' most people agree.

We might disagree on the specific situations where it matters, but why not agree the rest and begin the conversation there rather than deliberately pretend - and it is pretending - that the fact some people have non-standard chromosomes negates any of it.

NC He remains M
Yes
NC He'd still have a Y chromosome from his father. Y chromosome Adam from whom all men descended?
MC Dont know enough about it to it comment
NC All those g'dads had mothers and these were all F
MC Yes in order to reproduce
NC So nonsense that BMT impacts whether M or F
MC It doesnt change s'ones sex
NC [reads prev Q and A re other chromosomal anomylies...] Taking the As tog that u were using gender as synonym for Sex
Yes
NC XO Turner Syndrome, XYY is Jacobs. XXY is Klinefleters ( i was wronf before)
MC I think Klein is XYY but need to look

NC So nonsense that BMT impacts whether M or F
Sorry what's BMT in this context?

Bone marrow transplant

Bone marrow transplant.

Ah thank you!

Bacon, Mayo, Tomato

NC [discussion sex specific syndromes Jacob XYY]
MC They present as phenotypically M
NC Klinefelters remain men
MC They present as phen male
NC They are men as have penis, scrotum etc
MC Med defn is karyotype and phenotype. What the genetic material presents in a person

Time is marching on, NC - get that mic drop moment in quickly!

Herald live blog back on 👍

Sorry that was my lunch order

Onto discussing Dr Upton

I'm surprised Maggie didn't revise her DSDs over the weekend tbh

Anyone else reckon Charlotte Elves has the dozen or so medical fellows at Exeter on speed dial?

NC Will try Q again as not answered. Asking u to agree that alive/dead binary is easy to determine and salient, despite the possibility of long discussions in this court

When DH died, I could tell straight away that he'd gone. It took a post mortem and follow up tests to establish what he'd died of.

NC - BOOM. Waiting for TT to be posted……

MC - Upton genitally male but never examined her (penis).

Will NC will probably wheel out Pete to make the comparison? I need a coffee.

Will NC will probably wheel out Pete to make the comparison? I need a coffee.